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Threabanned posters:
brickstser69
slay55
mulbot
Summary of the deal apparently:
Not surprising: Ukraine getting shafted in the agreement
Surprising: The first paragraph uses the phrase " Russia's invasion of Ukraine in February 2022"
Don't know what's in the five missing clauses
I fear he might be right. I think the rewriting of the world is taking shape at this moment and in the next few years.
We need to join NATO asap.
We are sitting ducks.
He's not right. Trump could only end the war in Ukraine by nuking it - if the military people were stupid enough to obey those orders, which I would hope they wouldn't. Zelensky is not obligated to agree to stupid one sided 'peace' terms, and he won't - as we have already seen by the ridiculous distraction of this minerals nonsense.
Trump's realistic power lies in cutting Ukraine off from US weapons if they don't agree to his stupid deal, but as we are already seeing in Europe, there is a very good chance a good deal of the negative impact of that may be negated by Europe increasing their level of assistance. 85% of Ukraine's effect on the Orcs is via drones, only a small percentage of which are of US origin.
I wouldn't be lying awake at night worrying about Trump 'taking Canada' tbh…
sorry double post, stupid flaky wifi
Well definitely an EU army I believe. I am not sure what way NATO would be if America left it.
No but Panama and Greenland I think he could alright. Then again looking back over history you just never know.
Flashback 3 years -
Obviously I don't know the fine details of this deal but it looks very bad for Ukraine without any real security guarantee.
So not a ceasefire agreement, and definitely not a peace deal. That text (if it's genuine) is the literal embodiement of "concepts of a plan".
If it makes Trump feel like he's doing something, fine. But it's actually not really anything more substantial than the reconstruction agreement Ukraine has already established (for some two years now) with the EU.
When talking with Macron, Trump said , peacekeepers, no problem, I talked to Putin, he has no problem with that''
But Lavrov today
'' says Russia does not consider peacekeepers an option, and that these talks are aimed at "further fuelling the conflict",
Lavrov also describes the discussions as "empty talk", and a "deceit", aimed at secretly pumping Ukraine with weapons''
and as for getting off Ukraine's land, or drawing a line at where we are no
''
Sergei Lavrov rules out freezing the conflict line in its current position and suggests that Russian forces will continue fighting until they capture all of the four Ukrainian regions in full ''
Do I think Putin said '' peacekeepers, no problem '' no. Just another lie from Trumps mouth
Looks like the minerals thing is on a separate track that Zelensky maybe doesn't care that much about…
No one can find this magical 350 billion Trump claims the US gave to Ukraine, pure fiction it seem.
Real number way less than Europe, surely someone knows the real numbers .
Maybe Zelensky things he will get Trump more on his side ,hard to know .
US - Russia talks set for round 2 in Istanbul tomorrow. Ukraine not on the agenda, more about the re-opening of embassies and making travel easier between the two.
It's like watching a world leader placating a Make a Wish Child at this stage… EDIT: obviously that's rather insulting to the brave kids Make a Wish helps. I think we'd all be safer with an average 9 year old in charge of the USA atm.
Not needed yet. If it’s a plan to continue some level of support for Ukraine to keep fighting then it’s not a peace agreement. It’s not quite the “end the war” masterstroke the thick as mince one promised. As for the bizarre minerals palaver I don’t get the sense that anyone besides Trump & few loyal dogsbodies give a tiddle. I doubt either side will have much incentive or motivation to embrace & honour that aspect of any agreement in the long term. Face saving (not really) crumbs for Crassknob. He can then hastily pivot to whichever revenge fantasies, trade posturing, and destructive domestic dogewars gratify him to refocus the gaze.
Just to point out, the information was given by Lavrov himself in case anyone wondering where it is coming from.
@brickster69 : any opinion on Ukraine progress in Toretsk as you follow the maps closely ?
Easy travel like this guy enjoyed -
Useful idiots spreading Russian propaganda manure 💩 for free
“Wait, I could have got paid for this?”
I hope the 'peace' deal proves to be utterly one sided - as expected - and that Zelensky refuses to go with it and Ukraine continues fighting, because the Orcs are on the ropes.
Yes, the map posted earlier today is total nonsense.
Ukraine has to forget about Nato membership
Russia has re-iterated (to the surprise of no one paying any attention) that the baseline for their negotiation is the Ukrainian withdrawal from the 4 oblasts Russia hilariously lay claim to.
So basically, they want Ukraine to withdraw from a half a million person city on the opposite side of an estuary and give up the Dnipro before talks begin. It's an utter farce.
Presumably everyone saying that it is entirely on Ukraine that there have been no negotiations will now grovel for everyone's apologies for just how completely wrong they were.
Trump saying he might not be able to broker a peace deal afterall….
Real value had to be below $50bn. The US were sending 30year old equipment and charging them out at new equipment prices. They also valued the cluster munitions which were going to cost the US 100s of millions to decommission.
That's before we get in to the money that went directly to US companies which created jobs, increased share price and rolled tax back in to the economy.
To be honest, I blame the Biden admin as much as anyone. They announced packages which they then announced again in the weeks just after, sometimes 3 or 4 times and they made the decision to charge for old equipment. It made it look to the US citizen like there was endless billions going there. Simpletons like Trump, latched on to this and it became a stick to beat the Ukrainians with.
On top of that, alot of the money the EU sent was in weapons bought from the US so you could be getting into territory where it cost them nothing to bring Russia to its knees. And then the orange turd handed the advantage all back to Putin.
From donkeys to broken Daleks. What does the bottom of a barrel look like?
Looks like somebody explained to him that Ukrainian negotiators managed to alter his mineral deal from $500 B to $0.
Well colour me surprised!
