Replacing previous thread which has continuing page count issues.
Previous Thread
Previous Original Thread:
Threabanned posters:
brickstser69
slay55
mulbot
I'm disgusted at the lack of support from Europe for Ukraine. With Trump being so feeble and the EU doing so little, there's nothing much to stop Putin making future inroads into Europe.
I'd like to see Zelenskyy mounting a last attack on Moscow, equivalent to the cumulative attacks on Kiev and Lviv. It won't happen though, Trump is in Putin's pocket and won't allow it.
Sounds great, I agree. But how can that happen?
Supporting Ukraine with weapons and without any restrictions on their use would be a good start. Even Trumps cabinet has floated the idea of getting oil prices down and increasing sanctions. Who knows how likely any of that is now. I guess we'll see.
The world largely not being at war would suggest that ending wars works.
Makes no sense at all. Imagine if the last largest war in Europe had ended with the UK signing another worthless piece of paper with with a dictator? That's what you're suggesting should happen here.
It's ok to be pro-peace even if it means some loss.
I disagree wholeheartedly. I personally and most of the forward thinking world finds that viewpoint morally disgusting. Only touted by those who are weak willed and naive. All you're doing is asking the crocodile to eat you last. And history proves it so.
"Him being shown to have lost the war"
"History has shown that appeasing dictators doesn't work."
At some point, people have to look at Ukraine in isolation as something that needs to be ended, rather than deciding it must be fought in order to defeat Putin. That just dooms it to another decade of war.
What's to stop Putin starting future wars or invasions?
Him being shown to have lost the war or appearing weak and his government collapsing.
History has shown that appeasing dictators doesn't work. It just doesn't. Hell it hasn't even worked on this particular dictator. Several times now.
Anyway amid the concerning news today there's a glimmer of hope still:
https://bsky.app/profile/newseye.bsky.social/post/3lhz7x32xtk2m
I don't think it's better to continue a war now in case there is a war in the future.
Same question to you: What's to stop Putin starting future wars or invasions?
What's to stop Putin starting future wars or invasions? It would be very naïve to think that Ukraine 2022-25 is the last time he will get involved in a conflict outside Russia's borders.
No, I don't accept either. But I think an imperfect peace in Ukraine, even if it means a loss of land, is better than a forever war that will absolutely result in the eventual loss of all of the country.
Wars have always ended. Like always. Now people seem to think they shouldn't end.
Of course they don't, but what does it say about the rest of Europe being spectators to it?
A dark day for Ukraine and the West as Putin's asset in the Whitehouse has sold out Ukraine and it's allies. The American house of cards political system has a lot to answer for allowing a convicted felon and clearly compromised con man in to the Whitehouse to further destabilize the globe. No wonder the Putin fanboys are creaming themselves on the thread today.
Do you accept Russia has a right to take over Ukraine, or the US has a right to eliminate Palestine?
Zelenskyy has to sell any peace deal to end the war to the people of Ukraine, many who have had friends and family murdered by putin's terrorists in their illegal invasion. Trump can say all he likes about wanting to be friends with putin but Ukraine has developed some very economical ways of eliminating terrorists and they can continue to do this if a deal is not seen to be a compromise that works in some way for both sides. putin fan boys declaring victory for putin at this stage sounds a bit premature to me.
I do wonder what will happen on the ground now in Ukraine and Kursk. Like do you leave your forces in Kursk as a bargaining chip with Russian land held which I can honestly say will end up 100% back to Russia, I cannot see Ukraine being allowed hold any of this once these talks get under way. Would they be better off taking these forces from there and have them fight on Ukraine soil proper so to stop as much Russian advances there before eastern Ukraine gets carved up. Also what would both sets of soldiers feel like on the ground at the moment, will Russian forces feel better were going to win, will Ukraine forces feel were fighting to save our country and yet a tosser in Washington and a prick in Moscow are the ones who will decide out country's future. I can only imagine the gut punch Ukrainian forces must feel at this moment. You could be on the front lines in eastern Ukraine at this very moment and in the next few weeks your going to be told that it's now Russian territory.
Why does the world now think that wars can't have losers? And that it's better to keep fighting forever instead of accepting loss?
Well reportedly Putin doesn't want a land swap as part of any deal so he's obviously still wedded to the total annexation and subjugation of Ukraine.
So Trump can go back to locking up kids in cages and Putin can continue to drive Russia back to the 19th century.
Europe just watching all this with horror.
A populist wondering how much to reward Hitler for partially invading Poland - plus making Poland pay for all the help they received, plus making sure they could never join a defensive alliance, plus, plus
I have the feeling that this post won't age very well.
Nobody has to keep Zelensky happy for a start. They only need to turn of his tap.
He will do well to get out of this one alive. He will do precisely as he is told.
Have you ever dealt with Americans? Like: in a dog eat dog corporate setting?
They smile from the top lip down..
Russia is already on the EUs border with Lithuania, Finland, Latvia, Estonia, and Poland.
"Western allies"?
"Their negotiating position"?
Are you nuts? This war is an American show - with Europe the lap dog (remember our sucking up Nordstream?)
What was it that Nuland said at the start of all this in 2014 or so?
"**** Europe"
Well, nothing's changed Bubba. Europe can go **** itself as far as the US is concerned: it doesn't matter who is in the Whitehouse. We. Don't. Get. A. Say.
Nor does Zelensky. Zelensky is in 'do what you're told, bitch" mode
I think they ran a pretty effective war. If half of what appears to be on the table comes their way then it will be Mission most certainly accomplished
Wouldn't want to live there but objectively speaking that's how it looks.
A year before the cheap gas starts flowing to the West? Less than a year?
It's the economy, stupid.
How on earth did a 2 year old manage to amass more than 20,000 posts??
Mod - warned for trolling and personal abuse
Anyway did Trump ever get Mexico to pay for that wall?
The problem with letting Putin keep land is that its become clear that no one can stop him keeping the land.
Meaning: there is no 'let' about it
Before you fortify and increase military budgets you need to justify that expenditure.
You'll need a bit more than 'trust me bro, if we don't arm up, Putin will be in Sligo before the decade is out.
If, for example, Putin starts demobilising and standing down his military once Mission Accomplished, there won't be a driving need to arm ourselves to the teeth.
Settle down..
Belarus shooting down drones. Maybe electric warfare sent them that way
You guys are so into landgrab as a sign of something.
What possible interest is Europe to Russia when the US is no longer here?
The US is pivotting to the artic - where there are actually resources (Canada 51st state / buy or takeover Greenland - as is Russia and China.
Europe has nothing to defend. And so has little use for an army
Well the EU will have a choice, either support Ukraine now, all in and destroy Putin, or do nothing and Ukraine falls to Putin, meaning that Putin will then be on the EU's border. With all that would entail ie:- permanent EU military presence needed on the border to contain Putin.
I'm not too sure this Trump "peace plan" will do much, at least in the short term - neither Ukraine nor Russia have been very interested in peace talks, which is understandable when Russian invaders are still in Ukraine. What will Trump do if Putin says no?
And in the process, replacing President Zelenski and his government by a Putin chosen one, and taking control of all of Ukraine,which was what he tried to do back in Feb 2022.
Only if he's allowed to. European countries can't be wringing their hands now, his attitude towards Ukraine wasn't a secret and there should be a contingency.
Keep going, almost
