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brickstser69
slay55
mulbot
What's happened today is nothing short of an unmitigated disaster and wake-up call for Europe.
Trump has not only went behind the back of the Western allies and unilaterally opened negotiations with Putin, he's also instantly harmed their negotiating position by having the Secretary of State acknowledge Ukraine won't get their 2014 borders back.
Putin and the members of his regime must be ecstatic tonight. It's looking like he's achieved the goal of splitting the NATO alliance on Ukraine.
They would get less than nothing. Russia has a chance to regroup rearm and do it all again with lessons learned another time. No deal with Putin is worth the paper it's written on. What's the deal trump takes Canada? Putin takes Ukraine?
Well we can always get Michael D to write a strongly worded letter.
And that should include us.
So what are people's impressions of Russia now?
A dictatorship that killed off it's opposition in full view of the world. Navalny dead. The press in prison. Hundreds of thousands of Russians killed on the whim of a mad man. Cities flattened in Ukraine. Civilian infrastructure targeted. Women raped. Children abducted. Men with their hands tied shot in the street. Prisoners of war gratiutously executed. Ukrainians having their heads chopped off by Russian soldiers and filmed and broadcasted. Heads put on stakes. Tanks that were supposed to be invincible Russian technology being blown up by drones. Russian soldiers walking away on fire. Russian soldiers being driven over by their own. Russian soldiers being thrown into holes in the ground for refusing to fight. Taped to trees for refusing to fight. Sent at gunpoint to advance and shot by their own for retreating. A coup by a chef of Putin's who he made into a leader of a mercenary group that had operations in Africa. Black Africans fighting for Wagner. North Koreans fighting for Putin. Iranian drones flying into Europe. Hamas being wined and dined in Moscow prior to their incursion in Israel. Hamas doing their incursion on Putin's birthday. Tankers dragging anchors in the Baltic sea to break communication lines. One nordic country getting serious on said tankers and raiding and impounding. More Russian tankers rotten from lack of maintanence sinking to the sea floor. Russian warships and a submarine attacked and sunk by Ukraine. The oil facilities of Russia being attacked nightly by Ukrainian drones. Pictures of the Russian war machine using repurposed Ladas and donkeys on the frontline. Chinese golfbuggies and Chinese motorbikes.
A mentally ill bully that thinks it can get away with it.
Who's the crack head?
I think Trump has sold Ukraine to Putin - we even know the price - $500b worth of minerals.
The EU and NATO need to grow up exceedingly quickly, the only way to stop this is to flip Trump the bird and put European forces into Ukraine and wipe them out, with Nato member states each providing aircraft.
Keep going, almost
Only if he's allowed to. European countries can't be wringing their hands now, his attitude towards Ukraine wasn't a secret and there should be a contingency.
And in the process, replacing President Zelenski and his government by a Putin chosen one, and taking control of all of Ukraine,which was what he tried to do back in Feb 2022.
I'm not too sure this Trump "peace plan" will do much, at least in the short term - neither Ukraine nor Russia have been very interested in peace talks, which is understandable when Russian invaders are still in Ukraine. What will Trump do if Putin says no?
Well the EU will have a choice, either support Ukraine now, all in and destroy Putin, or do nothing and Ukraine falls to Putin, meaning that Putin will then be on the EU's border. With all that would entail ie:- permanent EU military presence needed on the border to contain Putin.
You guys are so into landgrab as a sign of something.
What possible interest is Europe to Russia when the US is no longer here?
The US is pivotting to the artic - where there are actually resources (Canada 51st state / buy or takeover Greenland - as is Russia and China.
Europe has nothing to defend. And so has little use for an army
Belarus shooting down drones. Maybe electric warfare sent them that way
Before you fortify and increase military budgets you need to justify that expenditure.
You'll need a bit more than 'trust me bro, if we don't arm up, Putin will be in Sligo before the decade is out.
If, for example, Putin starts demobilising and standing down his military once Mission Accomplished, there won't be a driving need to arm ourselves to the teeth.
Settle down..
The problem with letting Putin keep land is that its become clear that no one can stop him keeping the land.
Meaning: there is no 'let' about it
Anyway did Trump ever get Mexico to pay for that wall?
How on earth did a 2 year old manage to amass more than 20,000 posts??
Mod - warned for trolling and personal abuse
I think they ran a pretty effective war. If half of what appears to be on the table comes their way then it will be Mission most certainly accomplished
Wouldn't want to live there but objectively speaking that's how it looks.
A year before the cheap gas starts flowing to the West? Less than a year?
It's the economy, stupid.
"Western allies"?
"Their negotiating position"?
Are you nuts? This war is an American show - with Europe the lap dog (remember our sucking up Nordstream?)
What was it that Nuland said at the start of all this in 2014 or so?
"**** Europe"
Well, nothing's changed Bubba. Europe can go **** itself as far as the US is concerned: it doesn't matter who is in the Whitehouse. We. Don't. Get. A. Say.
Nor does Zelensky. Zelensky is in 'do what you're told, bitch" mode
Russia is already on the EUs border with Lithuania, Finland, Latvia, Estonia, and Poland.
I have the feeling that this post won't age very well.
Nobody has to keep Zelensky happy for a start. They only need to turn of his tap.
He will do well to get out of this one alive. He will do precisely as he is told.
Have you ever dealt with Americans? Like: in a dog eat dog corporate setting?
They smile from the top lip down..
Europe just watching all this with horror.
A populist wondering how much to reward Hitler for partially invading Poland - plus making Poland pay for all the help they received, plus making sure they could never join a defensive alliance, plus, plus
Well reportedly Putin doesn't want a land swap as part of any deal so he's obviously still wedded to the total annexation and subjugation of Ukraine.
So Trump can go back to locking up kids in cages and Putin can continue to drive Russia back to the 19th century.
Why does the world now think that wars can't have losers? And that it's better to keep fighting forever instead of accepting loss?
I do wonder what will happen on the ground now in Ukraine and Kursk. Like do you leave your forces in Kursk as a bargaining chip with Russian land held which I can honestly say will end up 100% back to Russia, I cannot see Ukraine being allowed hold any of this once these talks get under way. Would they be better off taking these forces from there and have them fight on Ukraine soil proper so to stop as much Russian advances there before eastern Ukraine gets carved up. Also what would both sets of soldiers feel like on the ground at the moment, will Russian forces feel better were going to win, will Ukraine forces feel were fighting to save our country and yet a tosser in Washington and a prick in Moscow are the ones who will decide out country's future. I can only imagine the gut punch Ukrainian forces must feel at this moment. You could be on the front lines in eastern Ukraine at this very moment and in the next few weeks your going to be told that it's now Russian territory.
Zelenskyy has to sell any peace deal to end the war to the people of Ukraine, many who have had friends and family murdered by putin's terrorists in their illegal invasion. Trump can say all he likes about wanting to be friends with putin but Ukraine has developed some very economical ways of eliminating terrorists and they can continue to do this if a deal is not seen to be a compromise that works in some way for both sides. putin fan boys declaring victory for putin at this stage sounds a bit premature to me.
Do you accept Russia has a right to take over Ukraine, or the US has a right to eliminate Palestine?
A dark day for Ukraine and the West as Putin's asset in the Whitehouse has sold out Ukraine and it's allies. The American house of cards political system has a lot to answer for allowing a convicted felon and clearly compromised con man in to the Whitehouse to further destabilize the globe. No wonder the Putin fanboys are creaming themselves on the thread today.
