Replacing previous thread which has continuing page count issues.
Previous Thread
Previous Original Thread:
Threabanned posters:
brickstser69
slay55
mulbot
Honestly, will you stop dragging the thread off topic?? This is a thread about the Russia-Ukraine war, not a socio-political debate on the merits/ demerits of US capitalism/ democracy. Your obsession is tedious.
Russia's military and military systems are decades behind the West.
Ukraine has a combination of the same gear and limited Western gear, some of which is also older stock, but that limited old stock (old by Western standards) is vastly superior to what Russia has.
The proof is in the pudding, all you have to do is look at a map, the relatively miniscule gains Russia has made in three years, and the casulties it has sustained, the fact it could not establish air superiority, despite being a collossus versus a mouse in February 2022.
Now, what you're trying to do, is twist all that factual reality into a new "fact" - this is all part of Russias masterplan to grind down Ukraine, that it's deliberately "holding back", but no-one in the real world buys that.
These alternative realities are a common trait in those rabidly anti-US people who seem to side with all manner of despotic regimes simply because they're in opposition to US or US-allied interests.
I note you also referred to some people on this thread as "US apologists", interesting way to describe people in Ireland who are discussing Russia's illegal and unreservedly botched invasion of Ukraine.
For example, on the Israel-Hamas thread, there was a small number of people using the exact same language you are using here when referring to the IDF (paper tiger, and the rest), and amazingly, hyping up Iran as a vastly superior military to Israel via invented facts like Iron Dome does not and has never worked, Israel is terrified of Iran's airpower, and all that.
Again, not compatiable with reality either and based on absolutely nothing but an inner fantasy they are projecting outward. The world knows Iran has a ramshackle airforce dating to the 70's and a barely existant air defense system.
The mental gymnastics it must take to actually type out statements like Israel is running scared of Iran, or that the invasion of Ukraine is all proceeding to Putin's masterplan, defy logic.
The US is pivoting away from European defence to the Asia Pacific but this process has been ongoing since the Obama administration.
Europe will never have the defensive capability of the US but it can have enough to provide a credible deterrent on the continent's borders.
Frustration with Europe on defence, especially with Germany, did not start with Trump. The issue for Europe is that Trump is acting on that frustration.
For too long Europe has been hopelessly reliant on the US for defence across the board. US technology, nuclear weapons, aviation assets, infrastructure and military personnel are all deployed around Europe. Look at the nuclear armed Aegis destroyers on 24/7 duty around the Med - that system alone is an enormous commitment.
Every European country needs to get serious about defence and stop relying (less kinder phrases could be used) on others.
And Germany has to get over it's guilt trip and arm itself like the rest of us.
Proof? Who can prove anything? It's all opinion (although the ones earlier today: one citing Zelensky saying he had troops spread around the whole of Ukraine defending it, whilst Russia could concentrate their forces on the front and the other citing Ukraine OSINT) brought a smile to my face.
I'm off the opinion that if the Western media is reporting a significant artillery overmatch in Russias favour then loss ratios will be equally favorable in the Russian direction.
The only thing countering that reasonable conclusion is "the Russians are stupid" or that they are a very bad aim.
I'm happy to leave those opposing opinions stand on own merit.
It's this kind of racist throwaway the renders dubious all you have to say
"though, in fairness, the fact that the Russian citizenry still haven't revolted against him and his corrupt Oligarchs in any meaningful numbers suggests it's something of a national trait"
That "The Russians love their children too" sought to highlight the fact that folk are pretty much the same everywhere. You clearly have such a bee in your bonnet about the Russian invasion - so much so that you spout this racist bile - that you simply cannot be taken to have an objective, sober opinion.
Apart from the "begging the US for arms" bit (presumably the US benefitted somewhat from the arrangement - not least a late, late entry into the war) you were doing pretty well with the rhetoric … until the end.
Compared to what? The unwavering "the Russians are a bunch of incompetent nitwits bent on human wave tactics against a plucky underdog" that the US apologists utilize?
That's not what is really happening.
The posts are very deliberately and systematically presenting one sided setbacks for Ukraine whilst acting "concerned" about them (with a long record of doing so). Very occasionally smattering in something objective looking to not make it too obvious.
It's a technique and many posters have highlighted the obvious.
Putin apologism can be tricky nowadays so individuals come up with all sorts of ways to express it whilst also flying under the radar.
Since Trump has come in weapon's have continued to flow into Ukraine and the Russians are currently struggling to advance.
So basically carrying on as though Biden were still in charge?
I've no doubt though that more aid to completely stall the Russians is the only way to make them rethink.
Are we talking quantity or quality here? I'm skeptical that more artillery shells, Bradley tanks etc. can turn the tide…
But more advanced kit? Trump seems to have set his face against that.
https://www.euronews.com/2024/12/17/trump-criticises-biden-for-allowing-ukraine-to-fire-us-missiles-deep-into-russia
It's quite easy to track the movement of the frontline. Russian sources will agree on that line within a very small margin. .
Di you have a point because I don't see it.
Sounds like your getting excited that America has to come in and save Putin and Russia,
That must sting for the great leader and russians, first they had to go begging Northkorea for men and ammo,and now they have to rely on their great enemy to save them from one of their small inferior neighbours,
Super power my hole.
You of little faith
the American troops will be needed to liberate the half a trillion in minerals Trump thinks are his on which Russians occupiers sit
Which is very “concerning”
You deny the fact that Russia has started the largest war in Europe since WW2 with aim of occupation of second largest country in Europe after themselves?
What’s next you be telling everyone the earth is flat?
Presenting facts, articles and statements is not trolling. The fact is you do not agree with them or are willing to accept them at any cost.That is what debate and discussion is about - opinions !
Pete Hesgeths full statement
https://twitter.com/USWins1776/status/1889678441361842495
Americans can't afford to deploy troops to Ukraine they will all be in Gaza building Donald's golf resorts.
There's a point at which it's obvious that even if a poster isn't a paid shill that their postings are purely for reaction then that is indeed trolling.
I've put Brickster on my ignore list but I can see by the rebuttals that their intentional trolling continues.
Mod edit: warning issued
Nothing borderline about it.
Another incredibly disingenuous post from you. The repeated stance of pro-Russian posters who categorically refuse to explain what should have happened in the Spring of 2022 and how they think that would have worked out for the civil rights of millions of Ukrainians who - unlike their Russian counterparts - actually voted for the current leader of their country.
"Russia wants to invade you because you're cosying up to the EU and talking about seeking NATO protections… they're bigger than you so we'll leave them to it and suggest you just surrender".
And then hold up someone in the Trump regime as an example of a voice of reason and morality?
It's borderline disgusting from you.
Just gotta emphasize, the invasion of Ukraine was not a proxy war. No matter how many times you link to accounts that claim it is, a foreign aggressor invaded Ukraine. This was not the fault of NATO or the US.
Deal was concluded June 2024 (Biden admin) as a safeguard against the switch off of any gas transiting Ukraine and any EU members kicking up a fuss and retaliating in kind.
i.e. all what we're seeing happening now…
Also mitigates Ukraine's gas production infrastructure being attacked (also what we're seeing now)…
But hey, let's not ruin a good headline.
Also new Secretary of defense Pete Hesgeth on Nato membership for Ukraine and any peacekeepers on the ground.
His remarks come at the Nato meeting at Ramstein.
Are you “concerned” that the hundreds of billions of dollars seized from Russia be used instead
Yes very concerning … for Putin
"initial Ukrainian attack was repelled, but Ukrainian forces launched another assault. He calls the situation chaotic, with heavy combat and a significant Ukrainian presence."
initial Ukrainian attack was repelled, but Ukrainian forces launched another assault. He calls the situation chaotic, with heavy combat and a significant Ukrainian presence."
New US secretary of state on the diplomacy needed and upcoming talks where " both sides need to compromise ". He points about the " dishonesty that led people believe that Ukraine would be able to defeat and destroy Russia " and how " Ukraine has been set back a hundred years, the energy system has been wiped out and someone has to pay for it all "
A bit bad Trump saying they won't be getting involved in the reconstruction given his administration armed and funded Ukraine also and should take some responsibility along with others for prolonging this conflict.
@protexblue so you do recognise that Russia isn't the USSR, yet continue to talk about it as if it was the same military that fought on both sides of WW2.
You do realise of course that Ukrainians comprised about a quarter of the red army in that war? That when their Nazi partners turned on them Russia had to go hand in cap to beg Britain and the US to arm them? That post-WW2, Ukraine was the main arms supplier for the USSR for most of the cold war? You're absolutely correct that Russia isn't the USSR: it has a significantly smaller, more poorly armed, even more poorly led and more corrupt armed forces than that of the USSR whose history they falsely claim to be sole inheritors of.
You're not wrong in your assertion that the USA is an imperialist nation which over-spends on it's military at the expense of it's citizens life expectancy (and the quality of those unnecessarily short lives) that's currently lead by a narcissistic, fascist fuckwit. Where you're wrong is in thinking that pointing this out in no way means the same isn't also true of Russia (and to a much greater extent since they're a quarter of a century further along that path than the US).
Ukraine isn't a smoking wreck because the only way the Kremlin could inflict that on their neighbour would be the use of nuclear weaponry and Putin is (rightly) far too scared to go there as he's been told in no uncertain terms that to do so will be the end of him and the country he's stolen control of. As with all bullies, he's ultimately a coward (though, in fairness, the fact that the Russian citizenry still haven't revolted against him and his corrupt Oligarchs in any meaningful numbers suggests it's something of a national trait).
It's fine. It's all part of the plan to wear Ukraine down. Territorial gains don't mean anything. Everything is grand. Trust me, I've no facts or evidence, but I do know that it's all USA's fault.
That’s more Russians 😵 💀 recorded dead with video evidence on opensource drone footage in 5 months
Than more than all of the dead in the ten years of Afghanistan that the USSR managed
Edit: typo
Russia isn't the USSR. We might suppose then that human wave tactics wouldn't go down well anymore in Russia than they would in any other country (we saw what body bags coming home did to the US effort in Vietnam).
Going by open source data like death notices and the like Russia has lost around double the number of troops in three years what the Americans lost in Vietnam in twenty. And that Russian figure is almost certainly higher. The head of Wagner Prigozhin(if you peer into the memory hole of the coup that never happened, never you mind) said between 100,000 and 120,000 Russians had been killed. Indeed stated 20,000 of his own men had been killed and launched tirades against the Kremlin on camera in front of piles of bodies. He also claimed the Kremlin's reasons for invading were BS. Clearly he was mislead by the "MSM" and the "CIA"…
So it seems body bags coming home don't have nearly the same effect on Moscow politics as they did and would have in Washington. Well I suppose the freedom to hold large scale anti-war protests, or even publicly hold anti-war opinions isn't exactly an option in Russia, so there's that.
As for your stand off attritional war Russian "tactics", that would hold a lot more water if Russia haven't been also targetting civilian infrastructure with missiles(fired from afar because of their total lack of air superiority), and even there they've proven pretty lacklustre at it.
It is amazing your posts often start with a fact but end with a conclusion that is incorrect and we even wonder how you arrived there.
And I can give some examples: where are the boomerangs you claim are coming? Where is BRICs that is supposed to take over the world soon?
Maybe you took the wrong train?
Russian restraint
And where are your sources?
So far, you gave opinions with nothing to back them up. Why did Russia restrain itself and did not do like US did in Iraq?
And please argument with proof. Not just paragraphs with “It wouldn't be beyond its capabilities….”.
