New Thread to continue discussion for General Premier League. Old thread closed.
arteta wanted a forward player bought in the window. He’s made poor choices with the attackers recruited but it’s incorrect to say he doesn’t want forward players bought in the last window
Pretty sure i said in the last few years which is a tad different to the last window.
you also said that arteta didn’t want to fix it which is untrue in the context of the window just past
Havertz is a great player to have there when everything is good and you've quality around him. When Saka and a couple of the other options are injured not so much.
In the last few years he did not fix it - that's a simple fact - that is what I was referring to and if he wanted to fix it, he had several windows to do it. He didn't and his team have come up short as a direct result of that and may do so again this season.
But in the context on the last window, when his attacking players were injured, what forwards did he buy??
Actions speak louder than words in my opinion.
Havertz should be scoring more I think. When played up front, he just looks like he is a square peg trying to fit into a round hole. Not sure is it the system or the position but he could be doing better. You always look better when everyone around you is doing well of course but not so much at the moment though, especially when there aren't many options to choose from.
Arsenal are supposed to be a title challenging team and most folk can see what they are lacking - for a few years - and it simply hasn't been addressed.
That's on Arteta in my opinion.
he could have signed a player if he used his own money.
Let’s be clear about this: managers at elite clubs dont sign players anymore. That day is long gone. At Arsenal it was Edu who signed players. Not sure who does now. Arteta can tell Edu what he needs and can suggest a player he really wants or edu can suggest to arteta about a player available or suggest a player Edu or Edu’s scouts really rates….but it’s a cooperative process and the nuts and bolts of signing players is not arteta’s job.
The idea that arteta could have signed a player unilaterally (deciding who to sign, what to bid, what wages to offer) is not consistent with how modern elite football works. So when you say actions speak louder than words, you dont what the words are because the words are going on behind the scenes between a collective.
Havertz is a decent player, but he's a victim of Arteta and Arsenal and how they play. He's left isolated, has to run, harry, press, chase back all of the time, to fill gaps in midfield left by Arsenals deep conservative set up. Of and when the chance falls to him, his legs are ran off and he often misses.
He's a fine player, not a world class/best in the world player, but certainly good enough if he was used properly and not asked to do the work of several players.
no one seems to have mentioned that arsenals highest paid player is Havertz so I’ll leave that there
Of course there's more than 'just Arteta'. If you want to proportion blame on Edu or whoever, that's fine. But the manager takes the blame for not sorting out a priblem they've had for years and continue to have - it's that simple.
Also, another problem Arsenal sorted when they splashed out on Rice - plenty of credit given to Arteta then.
It works both ways.
Bidding 40m with add ons up to 60for Watkins wasn’t a serious bid.
Ok, youre not really following the point of who controls the money outflows at arsenal or any premier league club but at this stage I can’t help with that or I’d just be repeating myself again.
as a general point people completely overemphasis the importance of managers like it’s still the naughties or nineties. Transfer decisions are now completely committee based and work on a principle of deciding the value of the player and bidding that value and if the bid isn’t accepted then move on to other targets or wait till the next transfer window to resubmit a bid as the players contract winds down.
the clubs like Liverpool who got the hang of this era quickly prospered, the clubs like Man Utd who bidded and rebidded till they were breaking transfer records for Harry Maguire didn’t prosper.
Ok, that’s not mikel artetas department. He controls the football part and would be informed about budgets but actually submitting bids would be Edu’s (or his replacement) job. So if you are angry at that bid, you are angry at edu.
Ok, you are not really following the point.
Arteta has not dealt with the glaring problem at Arsenal - over several years.
You wouldn't proportion any blame on him - that's fine.
I most certainly would.
No you’re still not following despite my repetitions, for the latest window I wouldn’t blame Arteta. You would and I deem that unfair.
For sanctioning and reportedly being fixated on having Havertz as their top earner I would squarely blame arteta.
Despite my repetitions - I'm talking about the last few years.
You are the only one talking about the last window, read my first post that you quoted. It's quite simple really.
My first reply to you last night
“Arteta wanted a forward player bought in the window. He’s made poor choices with the attackers recruited but it’s incorrect to say he doesn’t want forward players bought in the last window”
your last reply to me this morning
“Arteta has not dealt with the glaring problem at Arsenal - over several years.
You wouldn't proportion any blame on him - that's fine.”
Hence my repetitions. Have a good one.
You say he made poor choices with the attackers recruited while also sayng he doesn't get to pick them. And only want top focus on one trabsfer window.
Have a good one indeed.
Havertz could be a very important player for Arsenal. In some ways he’s like Firmino type player. Firmino’s max goals scored in the league was 15 I think. But he was about much more than goals. Havertz is only 25 - I wouldn’t be writing him off yet as a top player for a title winning team.
People who say the likes of that about Firmino never really saw how he really played. For all his hard running and pressing etc, he had a touch, quality and awareness that few other players possess, and that certainly includes Havertz.
Firmino at his best was a truly unique player.
(Critism of the normally excellent TG4 here), TG4 still found time to show full live coverage of a South African club rugby game..... Talk about priorities for a station being subsidized heavily to promote and foster the Irish language and Irish culture.
Brighton are through, and Chelsea are out. Their first FA Cup victory over Chelsea since 1933.
While true, they've only drawn against each other twice in that period, 1967 and 1973, and one of those went to a replay.
Havertz's problem is he is too tall for his own good, because he's a giant of a man he gets stuck up front to be a focal point rather than play him in his natural role. He is not a centre forward, he's most productive in a deeper role playing behind a forward or wide on the right. At Leverkusen he played off of Kevin Volland and Lucas Alario. Towards the end of his time there he filled in at centre forward when they weren't available and he scored a few goals.
Chelsea paid £72M for him because he was a young player making headlines, but as often has been the case they didn't have a plan for fitting him in the team. In Chelsea's unbalanced squad he was squeezed into the centre forward role because he was the least bad fit but he never looked the part in the position and the lack of goals support that.
In 2023, Arsenal signed him for £65M and have proceeded to do the same thing. They already had Odegaard to play the creative role behind the forward line and Saka had the wide right position sorted. For the German national team, he became the centre forward because there was nobody else. Nagelsmann has since found Tim Kleindienst for the role and Havertz has played in the hole behind him.
Bit of a random one. TG4 have the rights to the URC, a league that includes 4 Irish teams, so there will be some people with interest in how other teams get on in the league. Why not show games if they have the rights? It was on at about 11 or 12 in the morning/afternoon. Hardly peak viewing time and it turned out to be a cracking game. Would you prefer if they just threw on another Hector repeat instead?
I think you took me up wrong. I’m not saying their skill sets are comparable, I’m saying they have specific talents that fit in what the overall team is doing and they’d tend to score similar amounts of goals. Havertz’s strengths are his height, pressing and stamina, which all fit in well with how Arsenal play.
Is there any truth in rumours that he's done a hamstring in Dubai? I wouldn't trust Arteta or the club to be honest about it so likely nothing or just a minor thing but hopefully Liverpool are ignoring rumours and just concentrating on their own games
Everton being safe and being on a great run with a new manager now has me thinking that maybe we would have been better off playing this in December. Though we wouldn't have had Konaté or Alisson (I think?) or Jota as an option off the bench so it's good that bar maybe Trent we'll be full strength tonight with a strong bench (Trent still likely to be in the squad at least). And Calvert-Lewin would have played the original fixture and now he's out so that's a plus I think.
7.30pm kickoff is going to mean Goodison will be hopping - I'm kind of looking forward to that aspect. It's a great ground, a proper throwback, and amazingly both Liverpool and Everton have won 41 games a piece there. So it's incredibly well set up as the last derby there!
Sad to see the place go - a really special place with a lot of history that is a dying breed these days
I cant see any world to be honest where Liverpool approach any game differently because Arsenal have either the first 4 attacking players injured or 3 of their first 4 attacking players injured to be fair.
Havertz is gone for the season. If Liverpool don’t win the title it will take one of the greatest chokes in the history of the Premier league.
Bookies have it as a two horse race now 1/4 and 4/1. I'd say Liverpool would take a draw tonight. That would be a 7 point gap, plus no damage to the goal difference. Here are the fixtures up to mid-March and the Carabao Cup Final. I don't know why Arsenal's game vs Chelsea is TBC!
Wednesday 12 February 2025
Everton 19:30 Liverpool
Saturday 15 February 2025
Leicester 12:30 Arsenal
Sunday 16 February 2025
Liverpool 14:00 Wolves
Wednesday 19 February 2025
Aston Villa 19:30 Liverpool
Saturday 22 February 2025
Arsenal 15:00 West Ham
Sunday 23 February 2025
Man City 16:30 Liverpool
Wednesday 26 February 2025
Notts Forest 19:30 Arsenal
Liverpool 20:15 Newcastle
Saturday 8 March 2025
Liverpool 15:00 Southampton
Sunday 9 March 2025
Man Utd 16:30 Arsenal
Sunday 16 March 2025
Arsenal TBC Chelsea
February will see Liverpool going from having played a game less, to having played a game more.
