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Best Electricity/Feed in Tariff for 3 Phase/Smart Meter

blobert

Hello,

We have just got a 3 phase supply put in for a new build that is going to have about 40kw of solar on the roof exporting up to 28kw as a residential customer as opposed to business. We're also going to have a large battery bank of 60+kw also.

While the house is large, everything runs on electricity (including electric underfloor heating, 2 EVS, sauna used every day, possibly a small swimming pool), and we're quite large consumers of electricity over the course of the year we should definitely be net exporters of electricity on a yearly basis.

So I'm probably not that worried about what unit rates we pay and more about what we get paid for exporting and if there are any limits to this.

Last time I looked it seemed that in the case of most of the suppliers, they "paid" you a credit on your bill. Obviously for most people their usage over the year will exceed their production so they will still be paying out to the supplier overall. This would be an issue for me as at the end of the year I would expect they would "owe me" up to a few €1000 more than we've used.

This may not be an issue as much this year as we probably won't have the solar install done for 3+ months so sadly missing out on a lot of this years production but if I sign up for a year long contract we should still be in surplus next year.

If anyone has any advice on who I should be looking at going with that would be great.

Thanks!

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graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058301681/best-electricity-feed-in-tariff-for-3-phase-smart-meter

Is it a 3 phase smart meter that they installed? Or a day night one.. or 24hr?

First year will be the learning and monitoring year of how much power you actually use, and profile of it, day night peak etc.

But initially you want the same as everyone, the cheapest rate.

antoinolachtnai

How are you going to export 28 kW as residential? What sort of connection form have you sent in? NC7?

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120741486#Comment_120741486

3 phase, NC7 application

blobert

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120741595#Comment_120741595

Yes, that's right

antoinolachtnai

That will be a pretty unusual situation. It will take a while before you will get metering but in advance of that you should get a deemed meter amount based on your MEC. Another way to go here would be to register commercial and get one of the existing commercial quarter hour meters, but this is probably not a great option.

I think you should go with the supplier that you think is most progressive in dealing with export customers. You can go rate-chasing if you want but it could end with an administrative mess

You will have to deal with the tax situation yourself.

Have ESBn approved everything?

ELM327

So you will not have a smart meter if you have 3 phase. Therefore you'll get deemed export.

As far as I'm aware, and I do stand to be corrected on this, the same tariffs are available for 3 phase as for single phase customers once you are residential and have a residential MCC. Most 3 phase customers would be commercial and therefore probably looking at something like LVMD tariffs or something. Interesting question. I've considered getting 3 phase in the past myself but the worry of having to balance the phases with different inverters etc was a little past my level of comprehension and comfort! It increases your MIC and therefore the MEC you're eligible for, meaning you get higher deemed export limits and can install more power easily. I worked in the energy industry a few years ago and dealt with some residential but mostly large commercial users, didnt see any residential 3 phase connections.

Did having three phase change your MCC code? I am interested as this is a path I was considering.

ELM327

Also, looking here, it would seem that there isnt a separate 3 phase MCC so you should be able to sign up for day night rates if mcc02.

https://www.esbnetworks.ie/docs/default-source/publications/description-of-characteristics-of-connection-duos-and-mcc-codes.pdf?sfvrsn=42a18fe0_12

blobert

Thanks very much for the reply. Here's the meter installed?

Is this a smart meter? I don't think it is?

Am I right in saying if I don't have a smart meter I can't accurately get paid for my exported electricity?

Hopefully this is not the case as it will completely scupper all my plans!

Can I get ESB to put in a 3 Phase smart meter?

Jonathan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120747210#Comment_120747210

That is a three phase digital (not smart) meter.

Three phase smart meters haven't started to be rolled out yet (late 2023 per ESBN) so you're stuck with deemed export for the moment.

blobert

Thanks for that. That's not great at all, I'd imagine my deemed export will be way lower than actual.

We're likely to be not in the house for a lot of June/July/Aug so all all of that peak production time will be exported.

I should have done my recon better on 3 phase meters, I assumed any meter put in for a new build will be smart.

I wonder how long "starting in late 2023" will take in reality, I fear it could be years after that till they get to me to put in the smart meter.

Is there any capacity to keep hassling them till they fit the smart meter? I guess I'll find out.

Will all the electricity suppliers be operating on the same "deemed rate" calculations or do they differ?

antoinolachtnai

The deemed rate is pretty good over the winter. The calculation is the same on all suppliers.

What MEC do you have?

Hassling won’t do any good if the meter type isn’t ready.

graememk

The three phase and DN meters are the last to get switched so there isn't that many of them vs 24 hr meters.

There is no smart 3 phase meters yet.

It's to start in the autumn of 2023.

When do you hope to compete the house/solar install?

slave1

At least you have a decent length of cable to get a CT Clamp around all three live wires, my tails are uber short

DC999

While you’re away, maybe you could let a neighbour charge their EV during the day for free? If you’ve a Zappi you can set a code to lock it so they can’t change the settings. Set it to 100% Eco+ so only charges when there is 1.4kW free. So won’t ever pull from the grid basically. With 40kWp, you’ll have that all day long. Plus there is a car in the driveway too while the house is empty. You’ll be a local legend then 😊

Tbh if it all gets exported it’s still a win as there is free juice on the lines. So you’re helping Ireland Inc. IMHO it’s better than leaving some electrical devices on just to use power and waste it. Each to their own of course, you paid for it so use it as you wish.

You said you’re a large user of energy generally so it might even out on deemed export over the year even with ye being away duriig the peak. Ye will self-use a lot more at times than deemed export would expect. Takes a while to suss out what solar produces and your usage, it’s a long game. So a few months over the 25 years of solar is small beans in a way. Well, that’s how I stopped myself running around checking usage when we went live 😊

Btw, you're a legend with 40kWp. I've 5 and can't fit any more

icylava

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058301681/best-electricity-feed-in-tariff-for-3-phase-smart-meter

Can you please share the experience of getting the 3-phase connection and NC7 application? I think people are getting more and more interested in having a larger solar system.

Your experience would be a good reference point for others.

happyplants

Can I come in and ask what tariff / plan you ended up with on three phase with a non-smart?

blobert

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123118340#Comment_123118340

I'm with Electric Ireland at the moment, I think it was pretty much the cheapest night rate I could find but it's still not great.

At the moment I have basically zero day usage rate. I run heating etc at night and charge batteries then, then during the day I run things on a mixture of solar if there or battery.

I have not got my system setup quite the way I want it yet in that will do annoying stuff like export to grid which I don't want to be doing while I'm on grid. So I often just leave one of our EVs plugged in to Zappi on Eco+ mode so any export is sucked up by that.

Of course as soon as I get a smart meter I'll flip to exporting everything and just running the house on night rate/batteries but for the moment I want to export as little as possible.

I'm getting nowhere fast with getting a smart meter installed, which is very annoying as my whole expensive setup was based on being able to get paid for my export which will be way higher than the deemed amount.

If anyone has any contact in ESB metering let me know, I'm very willing to try and bribe/incentivise anyone I can to speed along the install process!

happyplants

I suppose the hope is that a smart meter for three phase won't just be a smart day/night one and one that lets you access the range of smart plans.

I'm sort of doing the same, but probably on single phase with a 29kva line and the NC7.

Its actually a bit now I type it out, but I just don't want to go to three phase when its limited to (at best) 24 hour or day/night plans. I'm sure my economics are way off here, and my three phase offer is very cheap (sub 3k).

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123125087#Comment_123125087

No smart meters for 29kVA either, - I'd be going 3 phase if it was available

As your a domestic property, you'll have the same plans on three phase or single phase.

kevin.m

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120747210#Comment_120747210

Sorry for bumping an old thread…

We are getting 3 phase on our new build, as we were quoted only €800 more than 16kVA 1ph. Your esb duct looks very full with the incoming cable, have you tried to get Siro installed in the duct? I'm wondering should I ask for a bigger duct to be installed.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123278994#Comment_123278994

Is the standing charge not a lot more then? How many kVA do you get with 3 phase/?

kevin.m

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123279098#Comment_123279098

Standing charge is the same on all domestic connections (just urban/rural), number of phases or MIC dont matter. The biggest domestic connection you can get on 3ph is 29kVa, if you want bigger, you will be classed as a business customer, and then pay standing charges accordingly. I also believe it would exclude you from domestic electricity rates (not 100% on this).

We are getting 29kVa 3ph. We are lucky because it is in a mini pillar beside the site.

slave1

what export are they giving you (NC7 I assume), you may as well get it all done at the same time

kevin.m

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123280706#Comment_123280706

I assume I'll be starting with NC6. I'm going to call into the local office to ask about the ducting, I plan to ask about NC7 at the same time. I'm hoping at the very least they will tell me what I would get on NC7.

kevin.m

On a related note, is there any update on 3ph smart meters?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123280716#Comment_123280716

You usually have to pay 900 quid + VAT before they tell you that.

If you ask nicely sometimes they will tell you whether its worth your while paying for the application or not (if you pay and you can't get the NC7 then you don't get the 900+vat refunded)

kevin.m

Got a letter into work today from ESB networks, saying they will be calling in to survey for smart meter installation.

Only got a letter for the building with solar (NC6), nothing for the other building without solar.

blobert

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123537655#Comment_123537655

Good to hear someone is making progress!

Just to check, had you previously had a non smart 3 phase meter installed?

2 years after getting a 3 phase meter I'm no closer to getting a smart one. I'd put my name on wait list have emailed them many times, offered bribes to any ESB workers I can etc but no joy!

Am exporting up to 250kw a day for free at the moment which is painful! My whole very large solar install was based on being able to pay for it with export tariffs so I'm massively down and worried I won't ever be able to pay for it. Knowing that I'm doing good by powering the street with green electricity on sunny days is not enough for me:)

kevin.m

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123537720#Comment_123537720

Yes, both buildings on mechanical 3 phase meters installed in the early 00's.

To be clear, this is a commercial building.

blobert

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123537949#Comment_123537949

Ah, that might explain it.

The company that installed my panels got a 3 phase smart meter on their warehouse, they were doing them for the whole industrial estate

But it seems residential ones are not happening yet.

One of the ESB guys I was talking to was saying it wasn't out of any machiavellian scheme to avoid having to pay feed in tarrifs, but just they tended to be slow in doing anything.

Apparently they are having to redo some single phase smart meters also as the ones they put in ran into problems

As I say I really need to get a smart meter in to justify my investment in loads of panels, 3 phase meter etc. It was always based on exporting loads and getting paid somthing for it.