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2024 - Dublin STILL ranked as second worst city in the Europe for traveling by car

Beta Ray Bill

So I posted this thread around this time last year:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058331379/dublin-ranked-as-second-worst-city-in-the-world-for-traveling-by-car

Guess what, nothing has improved… infact things have gotten worse and we've closed the gap on London (as I predicted)

https://www.tomtom.com/traffic-index/ranking

There have been a few more cities added this year (specifically in india and south america), so our global ranking has gone down to 10th

I dont understand why London 37 mins in 2023 and is 33 mins in 2024 yet it sayd +40 secs (Perhaps its some other number/indicator)

I defo think things are getting worse, I had to drive from Swords to Rahey this morning…. It took over 50 mins, and thats not even going into the city.

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_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123104994#Comment_123104994

Sorry no, that's a nonsense idea. Buses at busy stops could be loading for several minutes. Imagine the traffic congestion this would cause behind it back to the next junction at least and likely include other buses as well.

Current situation in that regard at least is perfectly fine. The bus is pulled in and stopped. So long as it's safe to pass it then other road users should do exactly that.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105776#Comment_123105776

They won't pull the plug of a project this big if it goes over budget.

The Mathematician

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123106863#Comment_123106863

It wouldn't work. The problem is there are so many cars today that if we try to speed up cars, all it does is to encourage more people to use their cars and the speed of traffic remains the same. There seems to be a given speed that people accept in order to have the comfort of their cars. This is why we need as far as possible to have buses using lanes that are not used by cars, and where this is not possible, we should give buses priority. Otherwise everyone is stuck at the same slow speed.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123106863#Comment_123106863

Actually it does.

Baseball72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123104994#Comment_123104994

why can’t we seek to speed up both, the motorist and the bus - it doesn’t have to be either / or….

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123104911#Comment_123104911

That is completely absurd.

Metrolink should be built if it ends up costing 3 times as much as budgeted because it is going to have to be built and the longer it takes the more and more expensive it is just going to be. Once the TBM is in the ground it is entirely a sunk cost and needs to be finished.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105264#Comment_123105264

It is not "the way" of big projects, many of the motorways and Luas cross city were on time and on budget. The Port Tunnel was hamstrung by unnecessary pandering to NIMBYs about drilling disruption, but such is the world we live in.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123104994#Comment_123104994

There is absolutely no point in enacting new laws regarding busses untilk AGS (and the Dept, etc) get the finger out and start actually enforcing the existing laws!

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123104911#Comment_123104911

If it's built it will go over budget and there'll be no plug pulled when it does!!

That seems to be the way of big projects. But when they're done they're worth it, look at the Port Tunnel for instance. "the Tunnel of death" as it was called when it was being built!

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123104911#Comment_123104911

Seems like they've been talking about undergrounds and metros as long as I remember. I doubt I'll see them in my lifetime, and not while I'll still working.

That said I have seen great improvements in public transport. But it's been glacial and completely out of touch with demand.

The Mathematician

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123102854#Comment_123102854

Your first point does hold up a few people in cars but it speeds things up for the far greater number of people on the bus.

In fact I would argue that we go much further and make it illegal to overtake a bus stopped at a stop unless there is a specific bus lane. Whiie this would decrease the speed of cars, it would increase the speed of buses and the overall effect would be to increase the speed of an average person.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123102541#Comment_123102541

They are completely different projects.

One is an 80km city inter connect (goods and people) that will take 4 years to build at a cost of €2B (we've built motorways before, we're good at it, we know what it will cost)

The other is Mass transit project to move people withing a city. I want metro built but I'm so sceptical, in 2022 Leo Varadkar said in a worst case scenario the project could cost €23B. Going to plan it will be fully open by 2035. Going bad it could be 2040 or later.
despite living in Swords, it's unlikely I will ever use it to comute, given my age an the rubbish route it's taking through Swords.

In 2014 the Worst Case Scenario for the childrens hospital was €800M, a deliberate over estimate… and look how that turned out. (I get there are different people running the projects)

If metro is to be built, there needs to be cut offs.
EG: If after the first 6 month of work they're X% over budget then just pull the plug.

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123103097#Comment_123103097

Oh I misread as the Limerick and cork motorways to Dublin.

Limerick and cork 100% should be connected by motorway regardless of metros built in Dublin

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123102854#Comment_123102854

There are lots places like that. But the engineers won't listen.

On the flip side as soon as traffic moves a bit better more traffic will appear to fill that new capacity. So it never actually gets fixed except for a short window.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123102624#Comment_123102624

The M20 Limerick - Cork should have been built a long time ago, but it hasn't been built.

It's not an either-or. We can easily afford both, and many other things besides.

It's a full 50 years now since the first plans for a Metro in Dublin were announced… we now have a plan for half a line but we're still waiting…

Compared to other European cities, or even the UK, there is far less usage of motorcycles and motor scooters in Dublin. Definitely the fastest way to get around the city (someone suggested a bicycle is the fastest way to get around - I can only assume they don't stop at red lights) and economical too. But successive governments, and our society in general, are extremely and unjustifiably anti-motorcycling.

Baseball72

The sheer volume of cars entering the city is clearly a significant issue resulting in congestion. BUT, there are also some self inflicted blockages at some locations around the city that add to the congestion.

Two simple examples I encounter on a regular basis.

Bus Stop 1989 is located on the narrowest part of Emmet Road (city-bound direction). Move that bus stop maybe 30 metres nearer the city (near the lawnmower shop) so that vehicles can pass a bus at that bus stop.

2. Hill Street, Dublin 1. Two issues here -: (a) why the need for traffic lights to control this staggered junction - it was fine before lights were installed about a year ago. But even if you want to keep the lights, (b) why is there a 2-bay parking area towards the bottom of Hill Street - on a narrowish part of the hill - no need for parking slots at that location - get rid so traffic can continue from Parnell Street, up the hill towards Dorset St.

Two simple fixes in different parts of the city would help traffic in those locations. I am sure there must be many spots around the city where a little bit of common sense could be applied to make traffic move a bit better……

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123102614#Comment_123102614

Well the topic is about congestion in Dublin, and the public transport in Dublin is mostly reliable, cheap and convenient and generally faster - if not much faster - then private transport. Wherever it is not is generally due to sharing space with cars.

There will always be esoteric routes people throw up and public transportation can never account for everyone. Some people just don't like buses and that is just tough. Even with the metro most people will still be relying on buses.

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123102541#Comment_123102541

That motorway was built quite a while ago now. So hardly to blame for the complete lack of progress with the metro.

Over 4bn last year on ipas. That sort of annual appropriation would do wonders for public transport.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123085361#Comment_123085361

Because public transport is so reliable and convenient, cheap and actually takes you to your desired destination in this fair isle.

Flinty997

Quite the deflection that someone has to use their car in Dublin because it's rains in Galway.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123102541#Comment_123102541

As someone who has to drive to limerick from Cork once a month (thankfully), a motorway is needed. But public transport is also needed. And improve rail links around the country.

It annoys me when we always end up in a a versus B scenario. We are a wealthy country with obscene (but temporary) corporate tax receipts. We should be throwing that money at capital projects like this.

John_Rambo

Dublin metro will be capable of carrying 20,000 passengers per hour in EACH direction, but no, we'd be better off building a motorway from Limerick to Cork for 3,000 cars a day that has a capacity of 57,000 vehicles a day.

07Lapierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123102380#Comment_123102380

C: Cycle to work. If your commute by car is 20 Minutes, i assume that is in a rural location with no traffic? SO cycling to work will take longer, but it exercise twice a day. Got kids? Kids love cycling and if they are too young to cycle, there's always the option of a electric cargo bike?

Look people travel by car because in a lot of cases they lack imagination and can't envisage changing a habit of a lifetime.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123086243#Comment_123086243

look at our climate. Look at rainfall… on average we see rain roughly 151 days a year along the east and southeast coasts, to about roughly 225 days a year in parts of the west…..

Also lots of people people working far away from home with the housing situation. Choose..

A : walking 50 meters from your desk to your car and home in 20-30 minutes let’s say..

B : walking say 200 meters to the nearest bus stop, waiting, taking the bus, which orbits and stops, repeatedly, get off, walk and arrive, maybe an hour or more since you left your desk. Lessens your quality time at home.
Want people to stop using cars, provide an efficient, comfortable, interconnected alternative. But our politicians haven’t done that. They have failed. Thats why Eamonn Ryan swans off into the sunset as the most justifiably despised, ineffective and incompetent minister we’ve probably ever witnessed and experienced in the history of the state. Been shocking.

Setting ambitions for our climate is fair and right. But if you are employed in a job where the portfolio is to help and facilitate citizens get from A→B, comfortably, safely and efficiently and you actually do sweet fûck all to help achieve it.

People travel by car because often they just need to. They have families and deadlines at home, taking kids to training, doing whatever, maybe relieving another parent to go to work gym, or a class…. time is a factor.

Look, Of all the European cities I spent time in, for public transport, Dublin is the worst. Look at Lisbon, Copenhagen…two examples…properly integrated, modern, efficient, effective, reliable public transport systems…. Buses, multiple metro and tram lines in both, as well as suburban rail. And us………🤦🏻‍♂️

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123101801#Comment_123101801

So you reckon the train I get to work is causing congestion? How so?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123101071#Comment_123101071

You completely missed the point, YOU are the traffic congestion!

You and everyone else sitting in your car are the cause of the traffic congestion.

1 million cars were added to the roads in Ireland in the past 20 years alone. This is the cause of the traffic congestion. It is simply mathematically impossible to fit so many cars on a road and so many people wanting to drive into our cities. They simply won't fit.

The population of Dublin is projected to grow by another 500,000 people over the next 30 years. Imagine if they all buy a car too and try to drive into the city how much worse it is going to get!

It really is a very simple to understand problem, there really is no mystery here. Our population is increasing quickly, we are a rich country so almost everyone can afford to buy a car now, so FAR more cars, but there simply isn't the road space to handle all these new cars and motorists.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123101007#Comment_123101007

What's the cause of all this traffic then...

Dublin was bad before any recent charges and cars had 100% priority. From early 2020 before lockdown

"...Ranked 17th globally, Dublin also slotted in as sixth worst city for congestion in Europe, after Moscow, Istanbul, Kyiv, Bucharest and St. Petersburg – and the only western European city with a population of more than 800,000 people in the “top 10”...."

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/dublin-ranked-17th-worst-globally-for-traffic-congestion/

McGrath5

The usual suspects complaining about the “terrible traffic” while theorizing the solution is more traffic yet the cause of all this traffic is nothing to do with the volume of traffic.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123089236#Comment_123089236

It has actually improved dramatically, off peak the streets are empty. Great for people that need to get around in vans & cars with equipment for work.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123091204#Comment_123091204

Yeah! We've a neighbour from Donegal that drives the kids to school in her Audi Q7. It's about 600 metres and she constantly bitches about the traffic, cyclists, traffic lights and cyclists!

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123089236#Comment_123089236

So the thousands of people sitting in their cars in traffic blame cycle lanes for traffic and not the actual traffic itself?

Thelonious Monk

I drive into city centre dublin the odd time and it's grand, not during rush hours though to be fair.

I saw these findings RE congestion on social media and pretty much every poster blames cycle lanes for the congestion. Not the amount of cars.