Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

WFH is dead and buried. Right to WFH bill is pointless

Options
145791029

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,214 ✭✭✭✭lawred2




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,691 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    In the context of someone saying only farmers work from home.

    Where's the definition?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,214 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    I didn't say anything about farmers. Neither scenarios would constitute working from home to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,691 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    What if I'm in remote hub, but not actually at home. Is that WFH?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,214 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    I wouldn't consider it so. Do you? Would your employer?

    I'm not sure what the purpose of that question is! Are you trying to define remote work as being the same as working from home?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,691 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    If I work from someone else's house, it's that working from home? Even though it's not my home. Maybe the home has to up a mountain to be truly remote working. Does that mean if live near work but working from home that's not actually remote working. How about if I telework but don't use a telephone just email. Maybe that's not telework either.

    So many questions and no answers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,214 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Sorry what question are you actually trying to answer?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,582 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment-rights-and-conditions/health-and-safety/working-at-home/

    "Remote working is an arrangement where instead of going to your employer's workplace, you do some or all of your work from another location"

    So, yes if you are working from your home, a friends home, at the park, at a café you are working from home. It doesn't matter how close you live to your workplace.

    It's a very simple thing to understand, no idea why you're trying to conflate it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,090 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Nope, you are working remotely or off-site.

    It's only WFH if you are actually at home.

    My current employer allow WFH after you've done their safety assessment, but any other remote working is not permitted, because the employee doesn't have sufficient control of the environment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,582 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    You're taking the "home" word far too literally here.

    It's your companies specific policy for that, not all companies, my company doesn't require any safety assessments.

    We were given the options of desktop pc's or laptops. Our WFH policy states that we are allowed to work in any environment with a secure wifi connection that can enable the company vpn. This can include another country for up to 2 weeks. All defined in the "Working from Home" policy in our contracts.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,100 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    WFH and Remote working are effectively the same things but both yourself and @Mrs OBumble have a valid point. By law you should have an ergonomic assessment. It is something that is ignored by most employers because most don't even realise it is a legal requirement for office workers, you will find it under the legislation under DSE assessment. My old employer took the view that we had 9000 employees, so we notified everyone and would carry one out if requested. My current employer makes you do an online training (which IMO is broadly insufficient). Neither meet the legal threshold IMO but it is a tick box in case there is ever a case brought, and the HSA will make them improve. Whereas someone in your company brings a claim for issues, would have a decent case but that is nothing to do with WFH/Remote/In office, because it sounds like it isn't done at all, and the HSA will have a field day and your company are on the back foot in any legal proceedings, whereas @Mrs OBumble employer seems to be taking a more stringent view, most likely because they have a qualified Safety Officer who remembers the lecture they took or it was mentioned in their previous job.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 11,254 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Hmmmm I know a few employees in my former team, who'd prefer they had not had ergonomic assessment, as they were judged not to have a suitable premises for WFH, one was even judged to be an illegal rental and the landlord was done for it! (This was here in Switzerland).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,090 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    A secure WiFi connection? Does that mean one which is protected against any non-employee, eg your kids?

    My current co is using citrix so not worried about connection security.

    But without that, hmm, i wonder what the legal status would be if a child or housemate was doing unusual things with the WiFi!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,582 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    No it basically means a stable connection that will not consistently be disconnecting leaving you unable to do your role and not a public open network, eg wifi network in a café. They're happy for us to hotspot our mobile devices, once the work is done and not on an open network, they're happy.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,100 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Agreed, we pulled some people back in as we done online assessments and found people working on a desk at the top of a staircase and they didn't actually have space to even put a desk/chair in place anywhere. They are a legal requirement though, and once done, if you need something to make it compliant, either you get it provided by work or you come back in. This said, they must also do it for the workplace as well, many employers are ignorant of this.

    My former employer offered it on the basis, with so many employees, it was a protectionist move, the cost of doing it for everyone was far more than the cost if we were found not to have mandated them. My current employer provides a really poor online training tool, again, tick box exercise. I would say that this is not sufficient either. Both are in a better position than most employers if taken to task over an ergonomic injury, ignorance is not an excuse under the SHWW 2005 or the General Regs 2007 an



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,100 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Most companies will require a secure VPN, more prevalent in larger companies with data that has value externally, but it woudl certainly be a requirement of any company I have ever worked with since I have done WFH/remote working, be it for accessing servers or just protecting data under transmission, pretty common for the past 15+ years in my experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,582 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    Ye and that's what we have but it can be connected through any Wi-Fi network, hotspot, technically even public Wi-Fi but if the company found out, you'd be back in the office 5 days a week sharpish.

    Like most of our non negotiable policies, once you don't take the mickey, it's all pretty relaxed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭TerrieBootson


    I find it unreasonable that he thinks he can mind a child while at work. Many people regard looking after a child as full time occupation - that's his real problem - he'd likely have got away with it if he hadn't mentioned the child



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60 ✭✭Fletwick


    Child minding and WFH are easy. Or maybe I'm just super gifted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,936 ✭✭✭dennyk


    Depends entirely on the age and the nature of the child. Simply being at home with your school-aged child in case they need something is one thing, but taking care of a toddler or a child with special needs who requires your frequent or constant attention is something else entirely.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,691 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,214 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    The VPN is effectively your employer's requirement



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,582 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    When talking about "safety assessment" it's in relation to ergonomics, ie the set up of the work space ie, adequate desk, chair in place etc, in order to work in an environment that will not cause physical harm (back/neck pain etc) to the employee.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,691 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I don't think that's actually what was described. People are inferring that. For me that reads like pickup and drop to a crèche etc, was impossible with a long commute. That's quite different.

    Post edited by Flinty997 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Seattle


    Why are threads titles like this allowed to stand?

    There's clearly some pushback against WFH but the statement it's 'dead and buried' is categorically false.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,100 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I imagine because it is a discussion site and to be fair to the OP, I think those are the words used by the opinion columnist who wrote the piece in the OP. Either way, it is a thread title, not a statement of fact nor defamatory, so I don't see the issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,691 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The OP was being overly dramatic in my opinion, falling for hype. No doubt WFH will decline but it existed before lockdown and will continue at a level higher than before lockdown.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,691 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Not conflating it. I'm playing devil's advocate because someone said working at home wasn't WFH. There are lots of different variations called different things. We can be pedantic about titles.

    But it's a point well made about having a suitable environment and equipment and these can be checked as a condition for allowing it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Seattle


    It would be fine if it was in quotes to reference a dramatic headline of an opinion piece. But it's unbecoming and atypical of a thread title in a serious discussion forum, in my opinion. But it's not a big deal and I don't want to make a major issue out of it so I will leave it at that.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    WFH in general and blended working in particular is going nowhere.

    Storm Éowyn and the current red storm warning for the whole country is a perfect illustration of why any sensible company will still offer it.

    ===
    boards.ie default cookie settings now include "legitimate interest" for >200 companies, unless you specifically opted out!



Advertisement
Advertisement