A girl I work with lives in Blanchardstown, she drives daily to Summerhill in her car. Why t f?
What’s wrong with a modest hatch back?
She’s unmarried and no kids. What the f does she need it for?
Bought my first "walkman" in the 80's for the specific purpose of listening to music while cycling to/from school and then college. Back then the headset was a band that went over your head and held the two speakers against your ears. They were crap as they simply amplified the wind noise passing by your ears. You could hear the music…just.
After a few years i "upgraded" to a walkman/radio combo which had wired in-ear earbuds. Sound was better, I could hear music (just above the sound of wind noise, car engines, truck air brakes etc.) but while I could hear the DJ's voice it was very difficult to determine what they were saying (because of the wind and traffic noise)
Today i have noise cancelling bluetooth wireless earbuds linked to my iPhone. They are Awesome! I can hear music AND spoken word. The shape of the earbuds does amplify wind noise but not as bad as the over ear type headphones. they do reduce ambient sounds, but only just. Wind and traffic noise is still the primary sound. When the roads are wet, "Tyre Roar" is almost deafening…it would be even louder if I was not wearing earbuds!
So Is it safe to cycle while listening to music? Of course it is. Its no more dangerous than listening to wind noise and traffic
Lots of people say "you need all your senses when cycling as you have to be fully aware of your surroundings". Well i disagree.. unless i'm chewing chewing gum while cycling, i don't need my sense of taste and i strongly urge anyone who cycles or drives not trust your ears/what you hear. Don't do anything unless you have LOOKED first. Don't turn right without looking behind you. Don't cross a junction unless you have LOOKED in every direction etc.
In a way they are.
Larger cars are more expensive, so more vrt and vat
Chances are they are less fuel efficient, so more fuel taxes too.
But maybe a "city" tax on larger SUVs is an option in the future.
and just as an aside, i was once sitting in a car on the quays at lights, and a garda on a motorbike hammered on the window and gestured at me to turn the music down. i decided it was not worth explaining to him that i was listening to the MBV remix of 'if they move, kill 'em' by primal scream, which absolutely demands to be listened to at full volume. (it's the law)
i'll try to address a couple of your points - and i say this as a cyclist who (before covid) was doing a 40km round trip across dublin two or three days a week; i have never worn headphones cycling and have never considered it. partly because of a fear that the day i'd need perfect hearing would be the day i wore them, and partly (i'm being slightly disingenuous with this point) that if i did come a cropper, i'd be blamed for using headphones even if they had nothing to do with whatever befell me.
firstly, you say headphones make the trip 'objectively' more dangerous. that's an assumption, but even if we assume it, you've no way of telling how much more dangerous. the effect might be so small as to be statistically irrelevant (in short, i'm questioning your use of the word 'objective' there).
you mention drivers are the most dangerous users of the roads; i'm obviously not questioning that. but what i find somewhat ironic or hypocritical is the calls from people (not saying you're one of them, i don't know your stance on this specific point) to ban headphones while cycling. the irony is that motorists are allowed shut themselves from the outside world sonically; with some cars having double glazing, and powerful sound systems (which are selling points in cars), and no-one ever seems to question this from a safety point of view. i'm curious how many drivers don't hear sirens of emergency service vehicles because they're listening to music too loudly? given that a bike bell is the legally mandated equivalent of a car horn for cyclists, i would not begin to guess how audible one would be to a driver in a car, even without a radio on.
and as per the australian study; i'm sure there are flaws people can find in it, but at the moment it's the only one available and it points to cyclists wearing headphones being less isolated sonically from the outside world than car drivers.
so again, the calls by some for headphones on the bike to be banned seem ironic or hypocritical because that'd be placing the legal burden/punishment for 'sonic isolation' onto those exposed to danger while saying it's fine for those creating the danger. we solve the problem of sonic isolation by punishing the potential victims rather than the potential perpetrators. this is an important point; if we assume the danger involved, cyclists are risking their own safety. but motorists are risking other people's safety. and we should protect the 'innocent' first.
lastly - and again, i don't know if you have called for a law on this, so please don't assume this is addressed at you if not - we have zero idea on whether introducing another law which won't be policed, will have any impact. it'd probably be the most tokenistic law on the books.
You mean the 99.7+% of drivers who have nothing whatsoever to do with "killing people?"
Yeah, he's an awful attitude, refusing to play along with the "let's find anything else to talk about to avoid any suggestion that drivers need to actually take some action to stop killing people ".
You've some serious attitude problem. And I say that as a motorist and a cyclist
Great way to avoid answering the question put to you.
I spent 7 years cycling to school as a student cycling a 15km journey in and out of a busy regional town. Not once did I consider wearing headphones because it objectively makes the trip more dangerous. Simple as that. You’re arguing a point that I’m not even arguing against. Drivers are the most dangerous people using the roads. That’s objectively true. Wearing headphones increases your exposure to said dangerous drivers. That’s objectively true. Do what you want with it after that. To me you are arguing for something that right now just isn’t reality because the infrastructure and state of driving doesn’t allow for it. Would you rather wear headphones in a forlorn fight for equality on the road and sacrifice your safety or would you rather be some degree safer by being able to hear another aspect of the danger you may be in before you get wiped off your bike. Which is more important to you ?
Not a common occurrence but I definitely wouldn't say it's rare in my experience
The last thing I'll say about it is that it is a disingenuous argument put forwards as the usual "I know what's best for cyclists" bullsh1t. Sit your ass on a bike in traffic for a while and then come back to us with your faux concerns about what is in a cyclists best interests
So you just flat out disagree that you’d have any benefit to having your hearing cycling amongst city traffic compared to having no hearing. There’s not one single instance amongst the possible millions of combinations of possibilities of things going wrong that having hearing would benefit you as a cyclist ?
very rare, i'd have thought. possibly people with cars which don't have bluetooth capability to allow them to take phone calls without holding the phone?
Just my last thought on the topic of drivers wearing headphones - does anyone actually do this? I don't think it's a good idea, always assumed it was illegal, and it would never occur to me to do so as a driver.
Do some people actually drive wearing headphones?
would you believe…
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200226171110.htm
I could certainly do with one for the next few days. Was away last night and there's not hope of makeing it to my house in a car.
almost was run over by a BMW on a pedestrian crossing in a Tesco car park today, a motorist in a small car would have stopped to let me cross.
just sayin’
Silly me for not realising that you were talking about France with your links to the Garda.ie website and your discussion of Irish leglisation.
If you came straight out and said that people prosecuted for that offence, but that was in France, then there would be no need for people to ask you to back up your claim. This is an internet forum not a telepathic society. How was anyone supposed to know you were talking about a different country..
The mind boggles
I'd say 8f you have to drive today, have a 4x4 suv with winter tyres, you'd be very thankful
so… SUVs, huh?
Strange how you never asked for an example from a certain area/region.
And on that note I'll bow out because the usual thread killers have turned up now and successfully detailed the thread for long enough.
Strange how you forgot to mention that it was in France.
I've already answered that. Feel free to trawl through local French court reports if you want some.
The laws aren't broad and common sense though. I've brought video footage to Gardai of people watching videos on dash mounted phones, and they say that they can't prosecute, because it's not explicitly illegal.
Any news on those prosecutions you mentioned earlier please?
You answered Yes to this question.
You've been asked a few time to back it up. You still haven't done it.
Anything else like the french law, watching TV etc is basically guff and deflection on your behalf.
Its also not specifically stated that I can't watch TV in my car whilst driving, but I'm sure we can all agree that's a bad idea. There's plenty of things we shouldn't do and it's possible to be prosecuted for that aren't named specifically in Irish Law. That's why the laws are reasonably far reaching and broad to allow common sense to prevail.
Top Tip: Don't depend on the legal system to tell you specifics of what is right or wrong to do. Use your own brain to come up with the simpler answers.
So all you can think of is some nonsense example of me failing to see traffic ahead because I'd be looking behind me (which I do habitually anyhow) 🙄
At least you agree with me that I can do absolutely nothing about a driver coming up behind me.
The article was about a "study".
French law only applies to France.
Surely you can understand that.
You haven't provided any information to say the wearing of headphones while driving can result in a prosecution. If you have it great, post or link to it. Otherwise I'm calling what you're saying BS.
Funny how the emphasis of the 'obvious facts' that you keep stating is on things that cyclists should do, not things that drivers should do.
Funny that.
It's funny though, in taking their pick of telling people what to do, they usually choose to tell cyclists what to do, rather than telling motorists what to do.
Why is that?
