He absolutely has weight to put on though I'm not sure you want a 100kg+ flyhalf either!
I also suspect from their builds that SP will never be as aggressive/good in contact as Crowley. So it will always be a point of difference.
I’m not sure it can just be put down to builds either tho, a lot of it can be psychological too.
For sure. Psychologically SP has come on leaps and bounds though already. He was genuinely extremely hesitant to get remotely involved in anything physical 18 months ago. He got involved in a ruck against Australia to try and disrupt it, which was ultimately very stupid and helped contribute to their try (though McCloskey was more to blame) but it showed a completely different mentality. So I would be pretty positive on the scope for improvement there.
Whatever weight he needs to bulk up.
It's difficult to see how SP can become a more athletic / running / attack the line type of 10 by simply adding bulk.
The speed I'd like to see in any Ireland 10 is speed of thought, speed in decision making. Adding bulk won't make SP faster, but it may make him slower.
How would it slow him down? We're talking legs, arms and shoulders.
I watched it back also and thought both out-halves played well. Prendergast missed an easy conversion and one of his garryowens was too long. His passing was good and he facilitated a clean break by Kelleher who offloaded to McCarthy. Also see VDF free. His kicking to touch was exceptional. 2 lovely kick passes to Lowe and Keenan. 2 excellent garryowens recovered by Keenan. Commentator credited him with a try saving tackle which was an exaggeration. He also intercepted after a clean break by Aus and his tackling was fine. Grubber kick resulted in a knock on by Aus. If he can threaten a clean break, it will make him much more dangerous. Teams seem to have figured out Ireland after first phase play, not committing to rucks so hard to make clear breaks
Crowley had an outside break and brought the ball to the line well. Kicked directly to touch once, otherwise fine. Looks more robust than Sam and is probably in pole position prior to Heineken Cup matches
I'm 6'4" and skinny at 86kg. My rugby playing 18yo is 6' and 77kg, his build is a LOT more powerful just because of the physics.
It might be possible to make SP heavier. It may prove more difficult to make him shorter.
Iirc both Porter & Ben Earl have said they lost weight / muscle after weight / muscle gain had affected their mobility.
I think our backrow with Beirne lacks something else. Conan was in excellent form this year and brought that added dimension.
Neither Ross Byrne or Prendergast are athletic at all. Prendergast is obviously not as athletic as Byrne though.
Also, during the ross international renaissance there were tons of articles referencing Ross adding a line threat to his game.
There is an idea popular in irish media and among fans, that 'taking it to the line' is a choice and its like a skill you can learn.
In a sense that is true, but if your intention when doing this is to pass (which is obvious from byrne and prendergast) then good teams or teams that prepare will find you out. Basically, Prendergast will get free compressions from unprepared defenses, but against other teams he will need to show that he can run, and when he does run defenses have to compress to some degree.
Just looking at him, i'd be fine with him running if i'm the opposition coach. I'd love him to run into 9/10 tackles and in as many rucks. All of rugby is based on this concept. You can mitigate it by adding power around him.
I do not understand why Conan has been excluded from the Irish set up. His carrying alone brings something we just don't have aiwth anyone else. I assumed he was injured.
He was. He’s just back now
He Was injured in the croke park game iirc
I have an incredibly fundamental disagreement on this insofar as I think it is just transparently ridiculous so I guess we are never going to agree.
Ross did try and get better at taking it to the line - he actually attempted to do so as opposed to be always in the pocket. But he was and is quite bad at it still. But he has to be applauded for at least trying to grow his game, but he simply doesn't have the core ability to do it well.
He was replacing POM so I'm not sure we really lacked anything in term so dynamism as compared to the recent past tbh. I do think that Beirne back to the row and a more rangy 6 like Izuchukwu would be better though.
I think what we are lacking is that our forward across the board simply aren't making the inroads they used to and also defences are fanning out somewhat against us.
If you react they will continue to post the same thing ad nauseam
R Byrne for all the complaints about him is an great player for both Leinster and Ireland. He has issues with some elements of his game but great at others.
Predergast is 21, he hasn't even played 50 games across U20/Ireland/Leinster. Not sure why anyone is trying to claim they know how he plays or his faults yet
I don't think anyone who watches him run would think he's going to be a good athlete.
Ross wasn't bad at 'taking it to the line'. Anyone can do that. It just wasn't effective against good teams because 'taking it to the line' means nothing if you can't run effectively. 'Taking it to the line' is a made up media thing that means nothing in important games without a reason for the other team to be scared of you doing so.
People understand this with every other position. They understand that you need to win collisions to 'threaten the line'. They apply magical thinking to tens. I do think if Sam puts on weight, his sheer height is useful just in midfield, scoring those close in trys you see 10s and centres sometimes score after the forwards create the space. Also, being stronger albeit slower, he could win collisions and establish a real threat that way.
I'd agree with a lot of that tbh, particularly the positive stuff with regards Prendergast, tho I think his tackling will need to improve (and I expect it to, the lad is only 21 after all).
I'd have a slight disagreement on his kicks, in particular his re-starts tho. I didn't think they were particularly good. One was too long, one was too short, but one in particular stood out. It was after the Henshaw touch-down that the camera cuts to from a replay, so I'm not 100% but I think it was from Prendergast? It was really poor and but for an Australia infringement could've put us under serious pressure in our own 22.
You could just see every forward in the squad shaking their heads and thinking 'know your feckin' place, lads'.
People have got all excited because Predergast started a international in Autumn over Crowley
As I said before the game this was an excellent chance for Farrell to have a look at Crowley against better opposition after he played well v Fiji. To me that was it. Is Crowley really able to step up against a Tier 1 side at home. To me the answer was yes
Would it mean Crowley wouldnt start v England? to me no. Crowley was always going to start v England and I could also see Frawley on the bench because of his flexibility and Predergast not even in the 23.
Crowley is 3 years older than Predergast and of course he is going to be robust. It was around 24/25 when Sexton finally started to show form which put him into the 10 jersey for Leinster and then Ireland. Before that a lot of people questioned if he was going to make it.
Both played well, Predergast had a solid game for his second start. Crowley showed his abilities when he came on.
That's really it for me. Crowley to start v England. It's great to see Ireland with the potential of going into the next WC with 2 young options at 10 fighting for starting spot. At that stage Predergast will be 24 and we would expect to be more robust
It’s difficult to square all these fundamental concerns about Prendergast with the fact that he has been parachuted into the senior squad at such an early stage and has done well. If he genuinely wasn’t up to it, it would have been a lot more obvious (or wouldn’t have been there at all).
As regards his physicality, I remember plenty of players getting bounced by big Fijians but not Prendergast. He made eight tackles against Australia , matched only by Henshaw among the backs, and Henshaw had 15 more minutes to do it. He’s not hiding in the backfield.
I genuinely couldn’t give a shyte if he looks a bit funny when he runs. So did Sexton and it never held him back.
I don't think anyone's saying he's hiding in the backfield, but there's also an element that he made 8 tackles because Australia targeted and ran at him. He also missed 3 tackles.
With regards his robustness, I think it's fair to say Crowley looked very robust even from his very early days with Munster, much moreso than Prendergast currently does. It's one of the major differences between them, so it's likely to come up.
Prendergast "obviously not being as athletic as Ross Byrne" will go down in the annals of this website as one of the most outlandish takes ever.
He made 9 missed 1 versus Fiji, arguably a more physical side than Australia. He is not hiding in defense.
At least one of those missed tackles against Australia was a blitz on a loose ball that kellaway picked up and stepped prendergast, Sam was still able to affect a scrag to slow him down.
Personally I have no issues at all regarding either his athletisism, his physicality or his defense. I think as a 20 yo out half he has more than enough of all three in his locker so far
Just had a quick look at Jack Crowley's first start with Ireland, also against Australia in Nov 2022
Made 8 tackles missed 2 in 72 minutes.
I don't recall anyone questioning Crowley's defense after that game???
Especially given he was two years older than prendergast at that stage.
And made 4, missed 1, in 20 minutes against Argentina. These are pretty consistently high numbers across three games, so I think the idea that he only made tackles because Australia targeted him is a bit off (and what team with big ball carriers does NOT run down the OH channel?).
1 year older for the record. Prendergast is 21, nearly 22.
Deleted
My bad, can't count for sh1t 😄😭
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://we.vanillicon.com/v2/e7ef1946e92d84157dc464ad6c3ddaab.svg)
