PACK (v NZ)??
Porter, Heffernan, Furlong; Beirne, McCarthy; Baird, van der Flier, Doris (capt).
Replacements: Herring, Healy, Bealham, J Ryan, *O’Mahony or Izuchukwu or S Prendergast.
I'd like if they kept Beirne at 6 this season.
Porter, Heffernan, Furlong; J Ryan, McCarthy; Beirne, van der Flier, Doris (capt).
Reps: Herring, Healy, Bealham, Baird, O’Mahony or Izuchukwu or S Prendergast.
or yes Deegan
I've always been for POM. He's going to be extremely difficult to replace.
I believe this Nov will be he last hurrah for Ireland.
He'll bench for Australia and will be given the great goodbye.
Warrior.
But both of whom have played a lot at 6. Even if POM is finished, it is infintitely more likely that we will see
4. McCarthy 5. Ryan 6. Beirne or
6. Doris 8. Conan
long before we'll see any combination involving Deegan (yes, I know Conan is injured). He's just not at the same level as any of the above players.
—his career has been pretty unspectacular up to now.
Beirne won’t be playing 6 this season, I’d put a bet on that
the reason deegan has to play is that Ireland don’t have another effective line out option outside of O’Mahony. The problem I have with playing O’Mahony is that he’s already played any minutes of rugby and he doesn’t have the same speed and fitness as deegan.
Baird?
I know Sam is big for an outhalf. And I know he is our new messiah. But I think packing down at 4/6 off the bench against NZ is beyond even his capabilities.
Ah who am I kidding, he'd smash it.
ireland didnt win that u20s, england beat them in the final
It would be kinder just to donate that money to a charity rather than throw it away.
It's fair to say Deegan hasn't played a lot in the biggest of games, but the competition he faces at club level is orders of magnitude greater than anyone else. How much playing time would Prendergast or POM have seen competing with Doris, Conan and Baird constantly?
I think this season, he has shown himself to be performing better than his peers, in Prendergast, POM and Baird, so it's a disappointment not to see him even make the squad. Could be as simple that Farrell has specific metrics that Deegan doesn't meet, but in comparison to POM, I fail to see how he's deficient this season.
I’ve thought for a while that Peter is being retained for his soft skills and leadership, that’s one of the few areas where the current team is less than fully optimised. Doris and Beirne are growing into it but we’ve seen a number of occasions where for periods of a match things become aimless and the lack of an extrovert old head (like Johnny, POM, etc) can contribute to looseness creeping in. We have no shortage of 6s, and without discounting POMs lineout prowess, that’s his big point of difference from those who can take his place on the panel.
POM hasn’t featured at all and Baird has about 15 minutes, so we can’t really compare their form with Deegan this season, but it doesn’t really matter, Deegan isn’t competing with them, he’s competing with Prendergast and Izuchukwu. He might have been called up and it wouldn’t have been an outrage, but at the same time he can’t feel hard done by. He needs a bigger body of work at the higher levels
You say he's not competing with them ,but at the same say he needs a bigger body of work vs 2 lads who've barely featured at all this year. What is he supposed to do? What have they done to earn the spot this year?
I don't think it's right to select guys based off of reputation over lads who are demonstrating good form. I don't think Henshaw ought to have been picked either, and I'm dubious about Hansen too. It's the ever reoccurring issue surrounding Irish teams. Once you're in, you're in until injured most of the time.
Credit in the bank counts for a huge amount in the eyes of international coaches its the certainty these players provide.
If you were to go purely on urc form this season so Deegan, Ben Murphy, Tom Farrell & Mike Haley would all be in
As nice & all as it sounds it ain't that simplistic
International teams/squads are never, ever going to be based solely on the most recent few games and its not remotely realistic to think they would or should be.
Hansen, more than anyone, has been incredibly conspicuous by his absence from the team.
That's a given, however it's consistently an issue that we give too much weight to past performance. Baird, Henshaw and POM have played well in the past, but they're coming into the squad with no form to speak of. Say they don't show any during camp, that's spots wasted, instead of bringing in guys playing well right now. I've never agreed with it.
I understand why coaches will disagree with you here. Veteran international's form comes and goes but these sorts of players have proven repeatedly that they can deliver in green and that is grounds for confidence that they can do it again. I don't know how many times POM has been written off and the literally won matches for Ireland, same goes for Henshaw who has come straight back from injury and delivered more than once. Who people talk about credit in the bank they are talking about this quality in player who have been around the block. There are some capped players who really fall off over time (Marty and Stockade come to mind) but with stalwarts of the team over years and years certain assumptions can be made about the floor of their contributions, and its pretty high. From a coaches pov these spots are never wasted on veterans.
There isn’t a coach in world rugby who picks squads like that, so saying this is an Irish thing isn’t correct at all.
The reality is that Deegan has had his entire career - including Ireland call-ups - to stake his claim and he hasn’t. A few good performances against Edinburgh, Dragons and Connacht might have got him in the squad but dropping other guys who are proven test level players to accommodate him was simply never going to happen.
i take your point with respect to players who have shown high performance in the past, and why a coach would value that. At the same time though, we've seen players kept on long past the point where their efforts have dropped off. Murray, Healy, POM etc have had prolonged spells where they were flat poor to bad, yet hung around. I feel like unless it's a player who is genuinely world class elite, then we shouldn't be giving them the benefit of the doubt over guys who are showing form. Let them play their way back into a team, rather than being handed a spot. Keeps players hungry.
Hansen got into the Ireland side off the back of a handful of games for Connacht.
Off the back of 9 matches for Connacht including a Champions Cup game and several seasons for the Brumbies…
That's somewhat beside the point though. Deegan has had loads of games and been in squads. Both he and the alternatives have built up a lot of history with the coaches and a few early season URC games aren't going to change their opinions.
Hansen is an exceptional player, Deegan is not.
Some players only need one chance to impress, they grab it with both hands when it comes up. Others don't.
Deegan has had those chances, he hasn't taken them, now he has to be patient and see if another comes along. This is the nature of professional sport.
Deegan reminds me alot of Ruddock, great club squad player to have but never nailed an international spot despite getting plenty of test opportunities
I think Deegan's issue is that we have far more good 6s in the country than we do wingers
He's got 2 caps.
I largely agree that Deegan, like Coombes, is just not in that top 1% to be a regular Ireland player but I would also argue that Baird is not either and has been given more chances based largely on his perceived potential.
Ruddock was unlucky with injuries at the wrong time. He would break into the ireland squad/team and then pick up a knock. Other players would then jump in and perform. The back row is so competitive that if you get in and perform the coach in reality will keep you in the team.
Provincial form doesn't matter when it comes to Irish selection, but Jesus Christ is Andy Farrell going to have to work his magic with Crowley and to a lesser extent Tadhg Beirne. They're struggling so much with Munster.
In the exact same way as normal, Munster players will go into Ireland camps and become better players.
Beirne is tasked with doing far too much with Munster and he has a lot of tired knock ons. He doesn't have that problem for Ireland. Crowley doesn't have to force things as much for Ireland as he has players around him that can also lead an attack.
Think Prendergast is a season away from taking the 10 jersey, he looks a cut above Crowley and Frawley imo. Has so much composure with the ball, creates time for himself
Get a few CC games v top opposition into him first & we will see.
I'd like to see how he gets on without a dominant pack in front of him
Serious talent there & great potential, hope he kicks on & exactly what Ire need is 3 10's snapping for the jersey
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