But taking in to consideration the manufacturing and the emissions from making the electricity, electric cars and vans are better for the environment, it's well documented. Ice cars are manufactured in a factory too.
Don't get me wrong, I love ICE cars and I've had ones for fun, still have one in the driveway and intend to get another one but the prophets are written on the subway walls at this stage.
The biggest scam, of which a lot of us were vocal about during it's implication was dieselgate, how that got through was a joke.
are you 12?
Is it not? Please enlighten us so.
lol yourself, the issue is not just tail pipe and emissions ffs.
No car production is green. Lol. The difference is tail pipe and particulate emissions.
Green stickers, what a load of Bollocks, EV battery production is not green ! lol
Range and rapid charge time requirements are an issue that is very personal for every driver, there's no one set of requirements for every person. Diversity of battery choice is good for everybody. It's like when you buy an ICE car you have a choice between petrol/diesel and a choice of engine sizes giving consumers a choice of battery characteristics allows you to spend the right amount of money for your use case. Lower cost battery chemistries like sodium-ion are one way the industry is moving, the other is batteries such as the updated Qilin battery from CATL that's targeting a 6C rate. That means it's capable of charging to 80% in about 10 minutes which should suit the requirements for those who won't compromise for charging time on long journeys. I don't think we're at a stage where there is one perfect battery technology every option is a balance of cost, performance, and durability.
One thing that can be said about battery EVs is that the technology in the underlying batter has progressed in the last 10 years, I don't think we've reached a plateau yet.
Its all change ,really . sodium batteries are unlikely to take over in automotive use because of that lower power to wait ratio ,
but it probably will find a lot of use in stationary use ,
The motors and batteries developed for battery electric trucks will probably find a place in hybrid diesel electric trucks and buses , if it's for motorway use there may be overhead wires like trolley buses of old ..
Electric cars have limitations , so does every thing else .. the materials used are still novel ,as petrol was pre first world war ,
I remember finding a petroleum distillate can in an antique shop , that was how petrol was distributed,and sold in chemist shops , a very expensive and inefficient distribution system, it improved though
" but the energy density isn't as good as LFP."
So what's good about this when the 2 key issues are range and recharge times ? Sodium might be good for storage that's about it.
You Thoroughly researched.
There's been a big shift in battery production, LFP batteries had largely been written off for automotive use, but are increasingly the first choice for mass market models. Performance models still generally use some variation of an NMC battery, though in the near future LMFP (Lithium-Iron Phosphate with a Manganese cathode) are likely to be commercially available which will displace even more EV cobalt use.
A big reason for the increase in LFP usage (up to 40% of EVs globally) is that the core patents for the technology expired in 2022, when you couple this with the high cost of cobalt and its supply chain issues you can see why battery makers are moving.
There are also sodium-ion batteries entering the market, these are still developing and look to be used for now in cheap big cars, as the material costs are low, but the energy density isn't as good as LFP.
I am quite aware of it, but thanks for assuming I don't know anything.
Before buying my EV and home battery, I thoroughly researched both sides of the environmental argument. I paid particular attention to sources of information I was reading and tried to only listen to reputable sources. After doing this, I came to my own conclusion.
Now for my own assumption of you. By the sounds of it you have seen a headline somewhere and jumped on it as gospel. You also seem angry and bitter and determined to let everyone here know that.
Battery tech is only really beginning, but still everyone in electric cars doesn't solve the problem of too many cars , - and the increasing size of cars ,
The recycling of batteries and motors is only starting as well ,
I think the biggest annual user of cobalt is still the oil refining industry ,
There's some cool nuclear tech emerging and I believe the future will include a lot more nuclear.
Batteries leave a trail of environmental damage behind it's not just about emissions once they end up in the car, then no one can see or cares about how the battery got in the car, they just think they're great helping save the earth, as Eamonn Ryan would say they're doing their bit for the environment lol.
Like most things - some good - some bad ,
Ev's obviously require fuel , so the fuel mix for the electric grid counts a lot , obviously no emissions at point of use - ironically mass adoption of off peak charging EVs suits having a lot of nuclear on the system ,
FFS I was teliported to this thread again ! Never said oil industry was good so why promote EV if it's not good, why try fix one issue while causing another ?
And fossil fuel extraction, refinement is good for the environment?
Sounds like you're listening to too much of that Eamonn Ryan Gobshyte !
Do you actually know how they get the lithum and cobalt and the environmental damage that does in the process ?
There are no current State mining licences or leases for lithium mining, nor have any applications for a State mining licences or leases been submitted to the Department of Energy.
No licenses have been applied for yet, only prospecting licenses which haven't found commercially exploitable deposits.
https://www.irishtimes.com/environment/2024/02/26/minister-rejects-criticism-for-issuing-prospecting-licences-for-lithium/
Now ask the question whether we should allow mining for cobalt and lithium in Ireland and you'll quickly get shut down here on boards, there's lithium, lots of it on the Carlow Wicklow border but local opposition has meant licences can not allow mining at this time, same with cobalt. The hypocrisy on boards here is astounding.
Sure we can have all this provided we don't destroy out land or our water supplies. Same as we can criticise Brazil for deforestation when out own forest has been depleted hundreds of years ago, absolutely boggles the mind. If we were to replant our "natural" forest in Ireland we'd probably have the effect of removing hundreds of thousands of ICE cars and vans off our roads.
Snowdonia in Wales has more trees than all of Ireland. We should be ashamed of ourselves !
When a question is a statement, it's not a question. Don't put a question mark on a statement and call it a question. A nerd would know this.«mod snip»
With all due respect, if you consider yourself a nerd, you need to educate yourself more on the materials in use in EV, ICE, laptops, phones etc etc
Also, people seem to think "rare earth" means a very rare (i.e small total amount) mineral. In fact many of them are extremely plentiful and it's the high cost of extracting them that makes them rare.
Same as all the tech you use in ICE and Mobiles and Phones is mined. Its only improving. Oil isn't.
Mostly they don't have a EOL. But they can be repaired recycled.
You realise most of the metal in you ICE and other devices is already coming from China. Has done for decades.
For me there were always two simple questions to the EV question, because I'm a nerd.
I think the answer to #2 and to a lesser extent #1 are part of some of the change in attitude towards EVs. If you want to get political changing to ev from fossil fuel just shifts the balance of power from the middle east to China which is hardly an improvement.
Ireland could suck up a lot of Co2 if we had any forest left, in fact , Ireland is the place to come to see the impacts of total deforestation , it should be a tourist attraction to see the damage of removing all your forest and the impact it has, we could do a lot more if we were concerned about Co2. It should be thought in schools and collages around the world about how we destroyed it all, could have replaced it and didn't. Sure there's little woods of crap spruce trees for industrial purposes but that's hardly an effort to restore natural forest.
Anyway, interesting link about the geothermal reserves of lithium, it does appear to be a step in the right direction to make electric cars actually green lol.
Great for the 2nd car but lower energy density, lithium and cobalt mining is highly destructive which can't be ignored.
Good for PHEV Rex type system that runs on biofuel. But they are much heavier and probably more suited to storage.
Solid state is the way to go , sodium while much greener than lithium hasn't a hope of replacing ICE range and refill times.
https://electrek.co/2024/04/05/nio-begins-mass-production-semi-solid-state-batteriesev-use-q2/
Per a recent post by Weibo user @Delu Loves Driving, NIO’s first 150-kWh battery pack (seen above) has rolled off the assembly line in China. According to the post, the semi-solid-state cells from WeLion have already been tested at battery swap stations in Shanghai and Chengdu.For comparison, NIO’s current stations swap EV batteries that are 75 or 100 kWh in capacity, so the new semi-solid-state cells can deliver significantly more range to drivers in a matter of minutes via swaps.
Per a recent post by Weibo user @Delu Loves Driving, NIO’s first 150-kWh battery pack (seen above) has rolled off the assembly line in China. According to the post, the semi-solid-state cells from WeLion have already been tested at battery swap stations in Shanghai and Chengdu.
For comparison, NIO’s current stations swap EV batteries that are 75 or 100 kWh in capacity, so the new semi-solid-state cells can deliver significantly more range to drivers in a matter of minutes via swaps.
I don't know about recharge times but 150 Kwh is where we need to be at to approach ICE range, Battery swaps, that was tried before and failed.
150 Kwh @ 22 Kwh/km would mean 681 Kms 100-0%. so it's a good start to replace ICE not quite there but a lot better than what we got now, recharge times still unknown.
https://electrek.co/2024/03/27/worlds-first-mass-produced-900v-ev-drive-system-rolls-out/
I wouldn't be interested in EV again unless there was a super charging solid state battery with at least 150 Kwh and a price of no more than 25K lol.
I don’t think anyone ignores the impact of Lithium production and that is why there is so much research into alternative battery chemistries and methods of production. There are also plentiful geothermal lithium sources which are much less damaging to extract
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20201124-how-geothermal-lithium-could-revolutionise-green-energy
Also, there seems to be an assumption that production of fossil fuels is less damaging when CO2 production is discounted (I.e. that carbon capture will solve all of its pollution problems) which is very far from the truth, particularly in poorer countries.
As for cobalt, more of it is used for oil refining than in batteries.
The question we need to be asking is why not use our own lithium and cobalt resources ?
Lithium mining is destructive to land and local environment.
There's lots of lithium in Wicklow/Carlow border Mount Leinster area. Protests have prevented mining so far but is it a matter of time before we see the true cost to battery cars or perhaps it's time we actually see it on our own door step.
For every 1 tonne of lithium you need 2 million litres of fresh water, I was banned from threads for highlighting this before because EV enthusiasts don't want to face facts. I even had a thread deleted, I started another and people were were warned not to respond. No one wants to face up to the reality about battery production.
Much of the lithium and cobalt that enters our electric cars has already caused a lot of environmental damage which is completely ignored by EV fans and raising that fact can get a thread ban, so why should we not use out own lithium and cobalt and destroy out own land and fresh water supplies ?
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