Seems bonkers that a ticketing system could cost that much. The annual total farebox probably isn't is that much. Would nearly be cheaper to roll out free fares instead of this system. At least that that would have additional savings with removing existing ticketing and revenue protection costs.
All online. Can refund to any SEPA account.
No it hasn't been rolled out yet and no definite info so far on how it will work across the cities.
In Limerick it's shocking how many regular bus users still use cash.
Didn't know you could do it (online I assume). I asked before at a Bus Eireann customer service desk and she said I can't get the deposit back and you can't do it via machine like in London so I gave up.
less than 10% of all journeys on Dublin bus are paid for using cash. If you were running this service you'd be thinking that implmenting all that new technology and cost just to facilitate such a small number of customers is a bad business decission.
It's still the right thing to do but you have to agree that the Leap card and its adopotion has been really good.
Also cash fares are much more expensive than leap so will the future % of tap payments be still very low as you get cheaper fares using leap?
Yes, same in Cork, most people just get the short fare, many routes aren't even long enough to have a long fare.
I don't think the 90 minute ticket has been rolled out in Cork/Limerick yet. I'd scrap the short fare and just make it a flat €1.50 (or €1.40, etc.) 90 minute fare and introduce right hand validators.
Do you mean Leap for 'can't get the money back'? You can request a refund to any IBAN account. Done it whenever I've had to change Taxsaver; and when getting rid of my original card and going Taxsaver back in the day.
Just use an expired Taxsaver as a normal Leap now, which did cause trouble on a barrier once where it tried to read the old ticket first
It annoys me that you can't get the money back. Oyster will refund the balance and card fee.
Will be interesting to see how they do short fair in the other cities. Right now in Limerick the Leap card takes as long as cash because everyone has to interact with the driver. If they go with the Dublin system almost everyone will still interact with the driver because the short fare will be by far the more common. They need to reverse the process and make people ask for the 90min fare outside of Dublin and maybe Cork.
Yes, the short fare on the bus should be dropped. A second flat fare reader should also be installed at the drivers machine on the left as you enter to really increase the flow of people boarding. Sometimes the read can be bad or people wave their card like a wand, which won't work. With the rear door for exiting, that is as good as you are going to get for loading and unloading a double deck city bus.
Yes, absolutely and with new ticket machines/readers, you'd hope it would process that card much faster and without the physical contact of the card to reader. Should speed things way up. I don't think you could do much better then if you had free fares.
On the contrary, I believe the goal is to offer all the same timed, daily and weekly capping options that are available on Leap cards. That is certainly how it works in London.
I believe they want it to replace Leap cards for regular, non special users like students, children, etc. [1]
It costs them to produce Leap cards, stock machines, etc. and reduce the number produced and rely on peoples cards instead would reduce cost.
[1] There is also the possibility that they put these sort of Leap cards as virtual leap cards on your mobile phones too, though probably still need the option of a physical card, in particular for children. You could even possibly link these sort of cards with your physical debit card, though I'm not sure they will do that.
Yeah, there was some confusion as to whether it would work, but it did indeed. I checked my Revolut earlier to double check I wasn't dreaming it! The rest of our group were very impressed by it. It is a strange concept hopping on an IC train for nearly two hours with nothing to show for it. But it worked great.
Yes, for a start, long term tickets and student fares will require a Leap card… Debit card ticket costs could be capped the same way as Leap is, but that would be a commercial decision, not a technical one: there's nothing forcing TII to provide the same level of capping or discount on bank-card tickets, especially when the system is inherently more expensive to operate.
This is mainly a measure to make things easier for occasional PT users and tourists, and reduce the costs of handling cash.
They most of fixed it so and not updated the official government tourist board website:
https://www.holland.com/global/tourism/getting-around/information/getting-around-in-the-netherlands/pay-in-public-transport
If you want to pay with a debit card, this is currently only possible with a Dutch card, so international visitors are advised to use a credit card.
Glad to hear it is fixed.
On flat fare, we are almost there already in Dublin with the €2 90 minute fare. I know there is the seldom used short fare, but just drop it and you have a flat fare, exactly like they did for the child fare.
Leap will still exist. Plenty of people who will need it still.
After the upgrade is finished will there be no equivalent of a prepaid public transport card that can be bought and topped up using cash?
I found the system in Washington DC to be a bit unusual. I could enter and exit their metro with my phone, but I had to first load the wallet with their equivalent of a Leap card and top it up, it couldn't use debit or credit cards directly. I still have it on my phone with $2 credit sitting on it.
Tourism was the reason TfL started the contactless card ticketing project in London, and it's the same reason TFI want to do it now.
Leap is great for residents, but for someone spending a couple of days in the country, paying a fiver for the card then putting money on it that you'll never get back is a bad deal, so they end up using cash or trying to buy tickets in person with a card.
It costs a lot of money to deal with this, so the idea is to cut out the middleman and let visitors use the card (or phone in the case of Americans, many of whom don't get contactless cards from their banks) that they already have on them.
One great thing about Leap is that it is a nationwide system: that means when contactless card payment is added to it, it will become usable nationwide. That might encourage tourists to use more public transport, which in turn could make improved PT a viable proposition in some parts of the country.
That's not correct bk with regards to The Netherlands. You can use a debit card or even a Revolut card. I tapped away with my Revolut on my phone and travelled to Rotterdam, Amsterdam and the East of the country in May without any difficulty. Never once went near a machine or touched my card and made multiple journeys.
There is a "red" higher charge route on the high speed line between Schipol and Rotterdam and you have to tap on a specific red poles for that services, also very easy. Great system. We should have the same for at least the Greater Dublin Area at a start.
I think - but again, limited use cases here - that the dutch system works with international Visa Debit cards which would be most?
I amn't sure how flat fares work when you are trying to encompass all public travel types and locations.
While you are correct, for normal use of just buses/tram/metro, you don't have to register.
However there is a complication, it only works with Dutch Debit cards, international visitors have to use a credit card, which not everyone has.
I'd hope our new system would work with all common credit and debit cards, both local and foreign.
I'd argue that the best system is London bus, just tap on. no need to tap off, it is a flat fare. Works with every credit/debit card AFAIK.
The public transport system is not built entirely for you and your specific usage patterns. Thankfully.
Excluding significant portions of the user base because you're OK with it isn't going to happen, no matter how many times you gripe about it.
I am. None of those scenarios justify retaining cash as an option.
See above.
To be fair, and in response to the other person who had a negative side to the system, I was just there for the week but travelled around the country and within cities with the family. I may only have registered the cards to get the discounts available for kids.
The most painless travel I've encountered in any country.
Happened to me on Thursday last - just came back into the country the day before and forgot I had left my leap card out of my wallet, and didn't have change due to being in a non-euro country. Realised as I went to get on my bus! Thankfully I was still at my local stop so was able to jog home and grab my card. Contactless would've allowed me to still get on, even if I had to pay a bit more compared to the YA fair.
What about tourists?
And what about people not from Dublin who have no need for a Leap card except when they're in Dublin?
Or just people who have forgotten their Leap card as a poster above mentioned.
Even that's unnecessarily complex, plenty systems around the world don't require you to register the card, most cards will just work
Try being serious, please.
Get a taxi.
Their Leap equivalent has huge, huge problems so I don't want them copying that bit, thanks.
Rather hard to actually purchase
Giant credit needed to take any heavy rail trip
Refund for an expired card needs you to visit a TVM to 'cancel' the card after applying for the refund online, so if you leave the country, they keep your money.
We'd need to get rid of all the remaining single door buses to go to tag-off also but I don't expect that will ever happen - tag off, not shifting the old single doors.
Do whatever it takes to copy the Dutch system. The most simple and pain free public transport system ticketing I have ever used.
Register your bank card with provider, scan bank card/contactless phone on entering/exiting station/transport method, get billed accordingly.
I've forgotten my Leap card one or two times myself and I don't carry change, so it is a definite pain to have that as your only option. Being able to pay with my phone or watch will make it so much easier.
When it happened most recently, I had to walk 20 minutes to the nearest DART station, to buy a new Leap card, just for that trip, with the €5 deposit and all that.
Again: not going to fly.
Leap card availability is poor, and has got poorer since the Payzone → Postpoint changeover. Where do you get a Leap card at 1am? Where do you get one if you don't live near a ticket vending machine or Postpoint? Where does a tourist get one in Dublin Airport when a plane load of students has exhausted the entire stock in Wrights/Spar (this has happened before)?
Until there is an alternative method of payment that the majority of people can easily access, cash is going to need to be taken. No amount of complaining will change that.
