Please use this thread to continue discussing the war in Ukraine.
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Original thread:
Your the bigger idiot for wasting so much time on that nonsense.
Hmmm…
This post is very good
"Research" I.E. verbatim regurgitation of the Kremlin spin. Spin that has evolved by the by. Many Russians seem to suffer from amnesia(& fear), so the Kremlin wrongly assumed people beyond their borders would also forget.
For 8 years the Ukrainian military was indiscriminately shelling civilians living in Donbas
You forgot the 16,000 Russians killed line. In fact at least 6000 of those were Ukrainian(Russia herself claimed 10,000 plus Ukrainians killed). Now I've asked you this before, to deafening silence on your part; when did the vast majority of those deaths occur? Hint:2014-16. How many died in 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021? Russia themselves say just over 600 of their men were killed in that period. So why didn't Putin officially invade at the height of the killings he's claiming are his reason for invading in 2022? I say officially as his "little green men" were, already in country. Something he denied for years and then admitted.
Most of all; how many dead, injured and displaced are there now since Putin's invasion? Ukraine is now the most mined nation on Earth. There is a zone of utter devastation so big it can be easily seen from orbit.
someone visited Zelensky in Kiev at that time Russia's national security was compromised once NATO began to expand eastwards.
Ah Boris Johnson, again. The same Russian speaking Boris who was so in bed with FSB connected oligarchs, he visited them in Italy when he was the British Foreign Secretary without his government entourage, who elevated one oligarch's son to the British peerage, who so concerned the British intelligence services they went public with their concerns. That Boris Johnson? Interesting choice of the Kremlin's spin…
But forget all that, one fact torpedoes this spin; the talks went on for weeks after Johnson had left. Oh and try and find these Kremlin claims from the time it was going on. It was many months before they spun that up and it took nigh on a year before Putin after cranking up his word processor and printer before he claimed he had the documents. You'd think they'd be shouting about at the time, no? No, at the time it was the famous "feint" that had them back off from Kiev.
Oh and those WMD Biolabs and weaponised birds and insects. They've gone quiet on them haven't they? Even though they're in control of a large chunk of Ukraine for two years they couldn't even invent the "evidence". Don't mention the sims, or any "waifs in their underwear"…
Russia clearly stated that Ukraine joining NATO was a red line (November 2021) and unfortunately this concern was never taken seriously. The Russians openly stated: if nothing changes, we will be forced to act in order to defend our national security. Enhancing the national security of one country at the expense of another is unacceptable. The Russians have legitimate security concerns.
If you didn't have your flag planted so firmly in one camp you would know that it was impossible for Ukraine to join NATO. Unlike your Russian friends NATO members have to be voted in and it has to be voluntary. And most of all no potential NATO member can be approved if they have an active conflict on their lands. Y'know, the Donbas war you claim was what kicked off this "SMO"? It wouldn't get past the first stage. It's written in black and white in the charter of NATO.
Oh and you do realise that Latvia already a NATO member for years is closer to Moscow than Ukraine? Never mind that now after Putin's fcukup his border with NATO has doubled. Nice one Vlad. 🤦♂️
Darya Dugina (journalist) R.I.P.
You spelled "hard right ultra-nationalist fascist" wrong. Goebbels was a "journalist" too and had written over a dozen books. Oh and for your own "research" look up both the actual law and timeline and non signing of said laws around the Russian language in Ukraine. Though I find it hilarious that Russia of all places bitches about squashing languages after their post war Eastern Bloc nonsense, especially in the Baltics.
But as sure as the sun rises at least a third of the above will be memory holed and the script changed by the Kremlin, if it suits, and the faithful will learn the new catechism ready to spread the UNBIASED good word.
The Wagner coup a great example and a good example of how so very different, even alien Russian political culture truly is. Prigozhin at first berated the military leaders and their screwups, but then berated "grandpa in his bunker" and then went on to say that the reasons for the invasion were bogus, effectively repeating what Kiev had been saying and that it was a screwup from the start. He then invades Russia, panics the Kremlin, then some deal is worked out, a stash of his joke shop disguises are rolled out and within a couple of weeks he's back in the Kremlin glad handing African diplomats at an official Kremlin junket. Perfectly normal(save for the Russian service people who were killed by Wagner on Russian soil). Then he gets offed. Cos Putin. Can you imagine any of that happening in any other nation that's even vaguely open, democratic and normal? If that was a Hollywood script it would be rejected as being internally daft.
But like I say that's been memory holed. As has the horrific ISIS slaughter of civilians in Moscow, among so many other things. But hey, keep on keeping on. Ukrainian spin can be "interesting" at times, but they do far less memory holing and are far less, well, weird. I await the next installment.
PS Jimmy Dore, Roger Waters? Ah jaysus…😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
"I have stated a lot of facts and I have given my honest opinion"
You must have copypasted the wrong document, the post was devoid of facts.
Rotten to the core.
Didn’t zelensky get elected on platform of wanting to do a deal with Putin which he did only for Putin to tear it up
@Luna84 "Soon after, there was a massacre in Odessa"
Both sides were throwing petrol bombs inside the building and it got out of control.
"For 8 years the Ukrainian military was indiscriminately shelling civilians living in Donbas."
Russian false flags.
Probably a Bio lab in there too!
You talk some rot!!!
You open with:
Zelensky didn't try to prevent the conflict through diplomacy because he lacks honour and integrity.
How can that be fact checked? Thats not a fact. That is your personal opinion which is without merit or foundation.
So how do we know what are expressions of opinions or misrepresentations of facts. Already your post has lost all credibility.
Facts can be presented in a way to misrepresent and deceive. Propaganda.
There was no coup. It is your claim. Supported by exactly nothing.
You state that everything you wrote can be verified while posting things like 'hint'? Conspiracy theory nonsense.
What you dont mention is that Russia has no right to dictate such red lines to Ukraine. It is a violation both of Budapest and NATO Russia Founding Act. Remarkable that your post doesnt mention these isnt it?
Russias legitimate security concerns wrt NATO were recognised in those treaties and Ukraine joining NATO is allowed by those treaties.
Likewise Russia never adhered to Minsk. That is what is behind the comments from EU leaders. Russia was not a good faith party to the negotations.
"A major blockage has been Russia's insistence that it is not a party to the conflict and therefore is not bound by its terms."
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/what-are-minsk-agreements-ukraine-conflict-2022-02-21/
Oh so concerned about Azov and not a mention of Wagner? Not believable.
You have done a lot of research but none of that came up? Nope. Your claims have negative credibility.
This is just a dump of discredited pro Russian propaganda.
I have done a lot of research and it took me a long time to write this comment
Well at least you wasting your time is one positive outcome from that nonsense.
Hi Ivan, how’s Orwell Road?
Here’s a tip- no one believes you.
Situation in Kursk deteriorating for the Rashists
Appeasement working well.
I posted few weeks ago but Norwegians are to thank for transferring plans, equipment, know how for Ukrainians to build shells themselves
It's Micheal Martin with moisturiser
It's as clear as day the American war planners want this war to drag on another few years to inflict maximum damage on Russia.
Important step taken for Ukraine's defense industry:
https://united24media.com/latest-news/ukraine-announces-domestic-production-of-155mm-artillery-shells-2342
That's America.
Those border officials will be lucky not to find themselves assigned to the front, letting a valuable hostage go rather than exchange for GRU agents.
I see a female motorcyclist with a large following on another forum who is travelling the world on her bike has been in Georgia. As part of travelling in Georgia she has to by law go across the russian border and get a permit to travel in Georgia.
(To anyone with a brain reading that, their spidey senses would immediately be twitching. And you'd be correct big time.)
She was told by the Georgian authorities that it'd be a half an hour job. Just go across and get your card stamped and back across back into Georgia. She was waived through the border into Russia with no delay. When she presented herself at the office in Russia. They were surprised she was there in the first place. Then she was put into a cell and then the interrogation started if she was a spy. She had to hand her phone over and all social media accounts were gone through. She started shouting on the cell door and the interrogations started again about did she hear of the special operation in Ukraine and why she was travelling the world. She said they all had a wry smile as she was being interrogated. As they had the power to do what they pleased with her. After a full 24 hours she was let go back to Georgia. One of the interrogators said they were sorry for this but that it won't always be this way. Whatever she said that meant.
So a lesson for any gullible eejits out there.
Russia aims to do lots of things… Kiev in 3 days. Ukraine kicked out of Russia by Oct 1st… indoor plumbing for the serfs (a guess seeing as this is what occupies the Invaders in Ukraine).
So things should start looking break for Russia but Putin won't go without a fight. The general mobilisation would be very tough for Ukraine to deal with but provide them with enough aid and they will prevail.
Russia aims to end the war by late 2025 or early 2026 with a victory due to anticipated serious economic problems starting in mid-2025 and the need for mobilization, which could destabilize the socio-political situation, according to GUR Head Budanov.
https://interfax.com.ua/news/general/1013845.html
From telegram:
"The Netherlands will not be able to provide Ukraine with the Patriot air defense system due to the refusal of one of its allies, the "NL Times" reports.
At the end of June, the Netherlands together with an unnamed country announced the delivery of Patriot to Ukraine. However, it has now become known that the ally withdrew from this agreement.
“The necessary components for the complete Patriot system have already been assembled. The Netherlands provided three launchers and a radar, and the rest was to be supplied by an ally,"
the Dutch Ministry of Defense previously stated.
Defense Minister Ruben Breckelmans said that the Netherlands has already handed Ukraine a radar and will soon send three launchers. They are currently looking for another ally to supply the remaining components.
"We continue our work in this direction. Negotiations are ongoing with several partners,"
Brekelmans said."
My money is on the US or NATO which is basically run by the US anyway. Obviously didn't want Ukraine having a PAC 3 capable patriot that could reach deep inside Russia. Scumbags.
True allies not worried about geopolitics..
Few quotes on the twitter sphere from the lads I usually post. But could easily be wrong.
I hope this is true, but what are you basing it on ?
They started a few months back. I suppose it took time to shift to nato standards.
That's great, but 2.5 years into the war and they've just begun? Hopefully that's not fully accurate.
