Or as suggested for it to be part of the N11 Luas.
As pointed out on page 1, how much this adds to the Green Line if it doesn’t have the N11 is suspect. It is likely that it would prompt a lot of people to get to Sandyford but not necessarily the city centre. Bray already has the DART and good buses to the city centre.
You’ve posted this before.
Sorry it’s nonsense. Light rail is not unusual in suburbs and satellite hubs.
Yes if it was the case that we were building these everywhere and not focusing on the city. That is not it though. This is an original rail alignment that would not cost significant sums and would add a lot to the area.
It might not be priority no 1, but honestly I don’t care what your opinion of what that should be or not. This is a thread about the Bray Luas extension, not your musings on the one or two places you’ve happened to live yourself (you know others have lived abroad too, right?).
The intention is ultimately for it to go via UCD.
All you are adding in here is more crayon drawings, which itself is incredibly tedious.
Yes we’d all live a Grand Paris Express or whatever.
The reality is, it’s not really cheap skating. It’s political cowardice.
What is the fixation with building expensive rail infrastructure in the least dense areas of the city?
It's madness when we're using buses as the main mode for getting into and through the centre (currently 3 times as many bus journeys as tram or rail).
Capacity is most urgently needed in the core, not in commuter/suburban towns. Build more Luas lines in the centre of the city and use the buses to do what buses are designed to do - serve outer suburban and orbital routes and provide frequent connections to rail services.
We're doing everything backwards - except for ML, everything is about adding capacity to the fringes, despite the fact that the most demand, the most density, the biggest deficit is in the centre of the city.
It's time to stop cheapskating and focus investment in rail infrastructure in the core of the city - yes it's more expensive and disruptive than building through green fields but it's far more important than providing a street tram connecting Bray and Cherrywood running more or less 800m parallel to a heavy rail line.
And once its designed right, thats brilliant. But we can't have a situation where a project is designed but turns out to be another constrained model as planners have allowed multiple developments which overwhelm the greenline further.
As I said in my previous post, this shouldn't be a Luas, but something better.
The purpose of this line would be to develop those green fields as high density, transport oriented housing built around the Luas line.
The luas green line is too long and too busy as it is. Maybe it can be designed as Luas2 or a type of overground Metrolink, but it shouldn't be a Luas tram as we know it.
Obviously it would be once the Green line is upgraded to Metro, so that it has the capacity.
no its not unhelpful, its the truth. I'm tired of people on here or on Facebook thinking the answer to congestion in north Wicklow is 'sticking a luas in the middle of the n11'.
This sort of stuff is unhelpful.
Yes in an ideal world that’s what we’d have.
Also in an ideal world the builders of the Kingstown line and beyond would have gone a mile more inland everywhere as well but they didn’t.
We have to deal with the infrastructure we have in place and to see how we can develop it further. There are micro business and educational hubs around the south east of Dublin (Bray, Dún Laoghaire, Cherrywood, Sandyford, Blackrock, UCD) that can see improvement in their connectivity without even considering the city centre.
Unfortunately the M50 is a commuter Motorway and will always be that
The Luas has no place going to Bray, it is an urban tram system, and has no place trundling though green fields at 60kph.
Whats needed is high frequency, high speed public transport linking, bray and n11 to Sandyford, west dublin and beyond, to give an alternative to cars using the m50 to commute.
Does it make sense to push further south to Southern Cross with it?
You’d be bringing more parts of Bray and the tip of Greystones into direct catchment.
Having the Fassaroe branch linking up to the proposed P&R there would be quite beneficial for those further south.
the previous proposed route had it splitting with one branch going to Fassoroe and the other to Bray Dart.
I see a local TD wants the NTA to look at using the Fassaroe site for the Luas Bray extension eventually. I’m not sure how this lines up with the previous proposals to bring it in via Little Bray to the DART although I did see the latest NTA map seemed to suggest the Luas would split at Bray, I’m assuming with the thinking being that they can go the other side of the N11 to put in place a P+R.
https://www.independent.ie/regionals/wicklow/bray-news/sale-of-280-acre-site-is-opportunity-to-bring-luas-to-bray-says-wicklow-td/a611272719.html
Gael23 wrote: » Does it have to be so many years to allow the waste at the site to settle or something?
Idbatterim wrote: » the landfill closed in 2003, realistically it could be what? 2033 before this luas would be built?
CatInABox wrote: » Yes, I think it's going to turn north at Broombridge, through Dublin Industrial Estate, across Tolka Valley, up through the parks there, turn right at some stage (not sure where, I was thinking Erins Isle Gaa club, but they'd be understandably miffed at losing a pitch), then left onto the Finglas Rd to follow it out to the M50 and beyond. Can't see Bray happening at this stage, they'll probably plan it out, but once Cherrywood starts coming on stream, I think that the NTA's figures for capacity on the green line are going to look a bit silly.
bk wrote: » Nope, there is little point in building high quality public transport to areas with very spread out, low density housing. The focus on the Luas and eventual Metrolink extensions will need to be building to green field sites and then creating SDZ's around the stops with very high density apartments close by. Basically what is happening at Cherrywood. Unless you are suggesting knocking all the homes in Finglas and replacing them with new apartments. If it is a case that the dump can't be built on with high buildings, then fair enough, an SDZ might not be possible and that in turn would make a Finglas extension far less of a priority. Instead probably better to focus on turning Dublin Industrial Estate into a SDZ and focus development there, it is a prime site for massive redevelopment. I suppose a P&R up on the N2 would be some justification for an extension, but I'd say the relatively low density homes around Finglas isn't in itself. BTW the justification for extending the Green line to Bray (and the subject of this thread) is to open up the fields along the route to development. To turn them into SDZ's like Cherrywood. Connecting to the DART at Bray isn't really the primary goal, it is the cherry on top, but not really why they want to build it. What is being suggested is very close to the start of the original Metro West. The original Metro West went from a P&R on the N2 to Blanch, then on to Lucan etc. What was suggested is just a slight variant on that and could be the first phase of a MW. Look I'm not saying that should all happen, but it is certainly an interesting idea. I'd say it would all hinge on how and if the dump could be developed.
LeinsterDub wrote: » I think you've got your directions flipped. Let's build public transport to where the people actually live not somewhere they may potentially live if 25 years time. If you go up the north road you capture all of Finglas as it currently exists and Glasnevin east of Ballygall
LeinsterDub wrote: » What's crazy is duplicating the future Dart line. Metro West served an entirely different purpose
LeinsterDub wrote: » Bray is already severed by high frequency rail why would you put it ahead of Finglas?
L1011 wrote: » I did the most basic digging in to this before - the stadium in Reading was built on a dump that had been capped even more recently than Dunsink was; but different waste loads may have gone in. All the Luas extensions in world are fine even if they duplicate other stuff somewhat - once we actually have a network. Resilience and options are good things. But I'd consider F (with a redesigned, but still redundant route to the city centre - not sharing with Red after Fatima) a priority over any other Luas extensions myself currently; followed by Bray, Ringsend, Finglas in that order. Possibly the suggested extension of F to the DART somewhere to the SE could be done at the same time.
bk wrote: » BTW The idea of heading towards Blanch isn't that crazy, it is basically what Metro West was planned to do.
bk wrote: » Build it up Ratoath Road? You have the existing area of Finglas to the West and land to the East where a future SDZ would go once the land is ready. I think it will be quiet a while before we see this extension, what with everything else to do.
