The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.
So, yes, Ecars and EI are the same group and their relationship is well documented. However putting that to one side my comparison was made because EI have the largest base of home customers of all the suppliers and Ecars are in the title thread although also worthy to note that they have the highest number of chargers of all the operators.
TL;DR My comparison was based on popularity of supplier, not ownership of said suppliers
Same electrons filling the battery though. Both EI and Ecars buy from the same open market for the same price, one sells for at least double the price of the other but can't profit from it. Sure, Ecars have to supply the public charger, or more accurately, the socket, but this idea of charging double the home rate and not profiting is a questionable one
The obvious answer is that faster DC is simply more profitable than AC, which makes sense as there are going to be more kWh being sold in the same amount of time and, rightly or wrongly, people are much more willing to pay a premium for the faster charging
As a group its making large profits. I get there are different rules for the different sectors it operates across. But I thought the idea was to allow competition and prevent monopoly keeping prices high.
It's not working. "...electricity prices here are a staggering 60% above the EU average and more expensive than anywhere else...."
Putting that aside as it's off topic for eCars and boring for anyone only here for EV charging info.
Ultimately the govt needs to incentivise the charging infrastructure. They don't seem to doing much about it. Though we are seeing a vast improvement in charging infrastructure. The govt needs to incentivise charging black spots.
it’s been a building site for over a decade but yeah it wasn’t affected. You can see fresh concrete where it used to be.
The argument was DC can charge more cars faster than AC and is faster to get in situ. Thus expanding the capacity of the infrastructure faster than installing AC. The idea is they'll come back to AC in the future.
I might be more profitable but I doubt the profits themselves are a primary motivation. Maybe I'm naive.
Privatisation in the electricity market is a linked problem to the multiple CPO problem. The fact that you have multiple generators and multiple suppliers instead of 1 company overseeing everything simply can't be good for the consumer.
The same is true for CPOs. Imagine if we had 1 CPO, 1 app, 1 RFID card and the same price across all sites. That singular CPO could buy equipment and electrons cheaper through economies of scale, all good for the consumer
Taking both of these posts and the spirit (cost of home charging and delta to public charging especially AC), I see your point, and would agree with your past anti-esb bias if other charge companies were charging less than ESB or were doing so in other jurisdictions and upping the price here. But that's not happening, the same price delta exists in the UK, from a lot of the same companies. Even ESB Ecars have UK outlets.
I'll say from a selfish point of view public charging is something I've used so rarely the cost is more annoying than a deal breaker.
But I can see where people do use it a lot, either through travel or no access to a home charger its an issue.
If pubs in Dublin charged €15 per pint then everyone would drink at home because it's too expensive
Pub owners would then say it's uneconomical to be in business because they don't make a profit off €15 pints
It's effectively a self fulfilling prophecy
Same for AC chargers, make it a premium product and no-one will use it except for the few that have no choice. Then you need to raise the price higher because you need to pay the cost of the charger among fewer customers
That results in fewer customers which then keeps prices high, etc, etc
Don't forget that with AC your revenue is limited by something that's out of your control - many vehicles currently only support AC charging rates lower than the capability of the charger. Either 7.4kW/hr or 11kW/hr. So at best you're limited to 11 times 52c unless a Zoe pulls up!
Most CPOs are charging more than ecars with the 2 major exceptions being lidl easygo, 50c/kWh which is subsidised by lidl and caseys londis roscommon 40c/kWh which I assume is something similar. Since all CPOs buy for the same price from the same national grid there is no reason for these discrepancies that I am aware of
Good point. There are a few more with 22kw then Zoe's but its less common for sure.
Again selfishly from my own perspective public charging at 7kw isn't something I've needed over a DC charger. But absolutely recognise it's merits.
Yes this ties in with my point that higher profit margins are likely what drives the CPOs to go DC but the idea that charging somebody 52c/kWh and not being able to turn a profit on what is essentially just an electrical socket doesn't fly
Also there's no such unit as a kW/hr
You are comparing the cost of providing electricity to you (Electric Ireland) with the cost of providing EV charging facilities to you (eCars). They're not the same service so they don't come at the same cost. Your EI electricity charge does not include the cost of the home charger, the cost of repairing or replacing the home charger when it breaks, the cost of having a call centre operational 24x7 and having engineers on-hand to investigate or repair any problems or the cost of collecting payment from you by card which is significantly higher than a monthly direct debit.
It's also ignoring the fact that they might be leasing the land that the ESVE sits on and paying the council to do that, the fact that installing the hardware in the first place likely involved ground works on a public footpath with higher public liability insurance and the requirement from ESBN to have a meter fitted, just for that one charge point.
Or about €250 to €300 standing charge per year.
I have noticed that EasyGo have been installing 24kW DC instead of 22kW AC at some locations - similarly Weev have done this too. It makes sense to me that ESB should think about this also. Maximise the 24kW energy to the EV and increase throughput as you are not constrained to 7kW/11kW by the car. Maybe have overstay fees after 2 or 3 hours to incentivise release of the location to the next user?
It's another approach. There are pros and cons to it.
😂 I was trying to make the distinction between kW units sold in an hour rather than energy (kWh), so hence the use of kW/hr.
Yes, it's a logical step as the price of DC chargers come down. Plus the EV owner also gains as there is less loss on a per-unit level due to the way that the DC charger sends the power direct to the battery (avoiding an AC to DC conversion within the vehicle). Well I suppose that all depends on where the charge-meter is installed - either AC side (before the conversion loss) or DC side (after the conversion loss).
Maybe have overstay fees after 2 or 3 hours to incentivise release of the location to the next user?
The 50kW chargers should in my opinion also have the overstay fee modified. I'd often take a 50kW charger over a faster charger as my Kona is limited to a rate of 74kW anyway, so charging at 50kW isn't much of a loss especially when the battery isn't very low (due to the taper). But I'm restricted to 45 mins so the most I can gain before the overstay fees kick in is around 37.5kWh. Annoying considering that I'm trying to improve availability of the higher speed chargers.
your home rate is not from ECars. It excludes the standing charge , the cost of the charger the cost of the land the charger is on. The support staff. thats just a stupid comparison
For a smaller battery and/or shorter journeys it's going to be enough, for bigger batteries and someone with a heavy foot on a long motorway journey maybe not. I guess thats when a 100kw+ charger becomes the preference.
Standing charge for Electric Ireland is about €20/month, equivalent to about 85 units of home electricity per month. So for every 85 units filled at ecars you've paid the difference of a monthly standing charge
You aren't investing in a charger with AC, you are investing in a socket, most of which are located in public parking spaces
I think you'll find that the home rate includes the support staff.
Easygo are charging 70c/kWh on their 24kW chargers, I would be careful about giving ecars any ideas
You need to pay for the unit aswell as the standing charge…..
Do you ever go out with food or drink? Do you complain when the restaurant charges you more than a supermarket?
That's a ridiculous comparison
state of play in Sutton SV
to their credit the dual charger locations (I'm not calling them a hub as there's only two and thats not a hub) have been flying up in the past 18-24 months.
I understand why you call these dual charger locations, but I think tri-charger locations is more accurate as 3 cars can change simultaneously…
In 2015 these would be considered a hub but today I think 8 simultaneously charging cars is the minimum to be considered for that title
More likely to be iced if they don't paint the spaces.
Decent set up tbh.
Sometimes I think whatever I say you have to find a little something to disagree 😂
2 chargers with 3 usable plugs, whatever you want to call it, it's not a hub!
Do they share power or is it 150+50+50 if all are being used. I assume it's not shared..
