Please use this thread to continue discussing the war in Ukraine.
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Original thread:
Weaken the West militarily before invading Taiwan.
LOL, I doubt the US is more than 1% weaker after donating all their old gear to Ukraine, if anything Western countries are stronger as they're investing in defence.
I don't know (so "certainly" was poor word to use). I am basing my belief off relationship the 2 dictators seem to have, refusal of China to call what has happened an invasion or a war, or to offer criticism of Russia's actions at all.
I believe Russia and China have been working together in more areas over last decade or so (or since Xi assumed power in China) and seem to have common goals as regards opposing, undermining and weakening the US + Western countries. Russia getting a win of some sort in Ukraine seems to further this greatly. Putin actually losing, maybe being forced from power, political instability in Russia and uncertainly in their relationship with China doesn't.
You would imagine incorrectly I think. I mean if you want to get into 3rd parties supplying Russia with Western military stuff (?) or something, where did NK get weaponry from? Anyway, I don't think (and never said) Russia is a "proxy" for China (though maybe they could become that, if the war carries on for long enough).
There is no way the Chinese want Putin to actually lose, bled dry maybe but Putin has to stay in power in Russia with enough of an army and nukes that the US has to maintain some force in Europe and cant concentrate against China, or absolute worst case scenario to avoid a leader who might even align with the West against them.
Now imagine if they'd another 5 or 6 patriots along with other modern air defence. Hopefully by year 3 Ukraine will be in a better position.
China don't want Russia to lose.
They want Russia as a patsy and they don't want to lose that relationship by allowing Russia to collapse on account of them not assisting in some way. There's no formal defence alliance so arguably they're already going above and beyond. Think the way Russia props up smaller patsies but on a larger scale in this case. A weaker Russia that doesn't lose suits China as they are then the boss of that relationship.
If those are the Chinese thoughts in the situation, they're placing a lot of stock in the idea that the Russian public won't eventually get fed up with the situation and just overthrow Putin, anyway.
The idea has some basis in that the Russian people certainly have seemed apathetic toward the war and servile to Putin, but dictatorships are brittle:- they're strong until they're suddenly not.
I’m pretty sure that Beijing already has plans “in the drawer” for that type of eventuality, and have probably already reached out to people they consider as possible replacements for Putin. China’s primary interest is the security of its own borders and that of its sphere of influence in Central Asia, not any personal interest in Putin or his cronies. And from what I’ve seen with that new gas pipeline, the refusal of Chinese banks to outright violate western sanctions, and what appears to be a series of cyberattacks on Russia by Chinese hackers, even that relationship is lukewarm at best. As such, I presume that Beijing would drop Putin like a hot potato once his position becomes untenable.
Didn't we risk that already?
The US government have to give the Ukrainian Armed Forces permission to use the long range missiles in Russian territory. Once the US government give the green light, the UK, France , Germany, Sweden etc will all follow the lead.
In the meantime it looks like Ukraine have successful tested a new long range new drone capable of 200km radius.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSZ3Gl4QqQ0
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/1f2e9j2/eu_high_representative_calls_for_lifting/
Read the comments on that good lad. You are as delusional as the OP of that X post. Sure they are always claiming we shot down 200 out of 20 missiles and 400 drones out of 40.
Russia vs. Ukraine is starting to remind me of playing Risk: you think you have this little country bagged with your huge army on your tile but then you keep losing like 30 successive dice rolls and now have to defend an entire continent with a skeleton crew.
Appalling and a massive slap in the face to the victim's family. Russia is not far off Taliban these days in terms of women's rights and preference given to violent men as long as they serve the regime
Given the rumours that someone high up in US military feeds information to the Russians, let's hope Ukraine is careful just who they release details to, certainly bold announcement:
!!!
Heck I'm certain, without in fact knowing, that US Intel uses triple agents to feed them information, as much as it is probable that double agents also feed them information, and vice versa. Must be a fun time sorting through it all.
For many years the western forces have been landing missiles on Middle Eastern ‘ threats’ all over the place. The USA bombed Libya into collapse. But the same ‘ ever ready for a fight’ powers demand that Ukraine, an invaded independent nation fights its much larger invader with its hands behind its back.
Sure they said they will show it to Trump so there goes that!
They should show Trump a false plan because he will most likely blurt it out at the next rally or press conference
We run the gas off the electricity and the electricity off the gas and we save two hundred pounds a year, but then a few weeks later ah god, I'll never forget it now, we got a new boiler...
Might actually be a good idea to show him a false one so he can pass that along to his Russian dictator bff while the Ukrainians get on with the real one.
Haha yes definitely
Europe is weaker and most of the great armies of Europe were empty shells of 20 years ago as it was.
There is a deep commitment in most of europe to not rearming or being capable of sustaining war or even their armies as a civic aid in times of crisis.
Russia losing and killing off all its men helps China continue their takeover of east Russia too.
The West gets a refugee and cost of living crisis.
Russia gets coffins.
China gets money selling stuff.
It's win win win for China.
Cost of living crisis is only partly from Ukraine. Australia and US have CoL crises too and don't receive Russian gas or oil.
We had a refugee crisis long before Ukraine too, and I would imagine the majority of Ukranians will return home once the war is over and their benefits are cut to nil.
I've no doubt China is interested in the war, but highly doubt they care so much to massively influence the outcome. Feels like conspiracy theory level stuff.
I agree they don't care that massively to influence the outcome but they are happy enough to take the opportunities that are arising from the war.
And ya I should clarify that I meant exasperate the various problems in Europe.
but the greens would rather the North Korea outcome. They would salivate at having that carbon footprint. Green agenda = communism by the back door.
The irony is that capitalism as a model is not very self sustaining, eventually we're going to hit a ceiling where there simply isn't enough potable water, or food, to go around for the number of billions we expect to support with our must-grow lifestyle, nevermind the crises with energy and cooling (interrelated). The closer we get to that ceiling the higher the risk of calamity we face. But I guess that's another topic for another thread. I'm certainly having more fun right now in my capitalistic lifestyle, not that there isn't something to be said for more sustainable lifestyles. As Deadpool recently said, "you'll never see a Danish flag on the moon, but god damn it, they're happy."
The hypocrisy is so thick you could walk on it. He could as well be talking about the Kremlin.
Lets see how this plays out
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