Please use this thread to continue discussing the war in Ukraine.
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Original thread:
Gone soft and worse again run down armies to being completely ineffectual and weapon reserves down to levels where training is a problem never mind combat or sustained combat.
Gone soft and no gun.
All war is brutal and full of awful things, it is however only western or heavily western influenced states that take any heed of such things or have populations that care for such things or would view them as wrong.
No one said that they stopped.
We in Europe have been sheltered from war for too long that we think it will never come to our doorsteps.
Putin was right, the West has gone soft.
The big nations never stopped committing war crimes. It's nothing to do with WWII receding. Torture and carpet bombing civilians never went away.
Depressing and bizarre. I don't think it's terror myself that's holding them back. Putin has been shown up to be a bully whose threats are almost meaningless at this stage. He'll do what he wants regardless of red lines. There was no line crossed for him to start his damn invasion. I think oil hit a decent price at the time, which is just as likely the trigger.
While its easy to slam the US, Europe has been holding back too much too and using similar reasoning that might as well amount to appeasement. "We'll help them fight you back but not enough that you'll actually lose". It still hasn't dawned on most populations that this is a European war. It hits home for me regularly in conversations among my own social circle. Those seeds of mass confusion and disarray are the result of a very long game that dictatorships like Putin and the CCP have played out via massive disinformation campaigns and every population has its fair share of edgelords, contrarians, peaceniks (call them what you will) to cause a quite viscous inertia against making, what history will hopefully show, the correct decisions today.
That's incredibly far away. Surely this isn't from a drone strike? Saboteurs, maybe?
I would agree, that WWII receding from memory could be a reason. But one big reason is countries not having a free press. This gives their government carte blanche to do whatever atrocities that they want without their citizens having to know about it. When there is no shock or outrage from the people against the atrocity, the status quo is kept in leadership.
One of the drones from todays attack on Ukraine ended up in Poland
Instead of slapping Putin so hard he doesn’t even consider using drones in western directions, we get nothing
Ukraine has shown massive restraint in the face of Russian barbarity throughout this war.
It is depressing. Seems to be nothing at all that Russia can do that will induce current US admin. to remove any more restrictions on weapons supply and use, or push forward other things that might help e.g. NATO air defences helping to cover Western parts of Ukraine.
There may be paralysis in US decisons on all matters regarding the war coming up to their election - the aid to Ukraine, Russian sanctions (non)eforcement, how NATO should deal with Russia's escalating grey zone warfare and attacks in Europe.
IMO it is terror from the Biden admin. of daring to change up anything in US foreign policy towards Ukraine/Russia war or in the ME, lest it affects the chances of defeating Trump in Nov. Unfortunately war is, I think, unstable and unpredictible by nature, and events may not wait on their preplanned democratic timetable. I would be kind fearful of what Russia might get away with (or perhaps I should say believe they can get away with) in Ukraine over next few months on the run up.
Bizarre. Ukraine has ALWAYS been looking for long range capability. 🤦♂️
Ukraine invading Russia and looking for long range weapons has no causal relationship.
Yeah, but Suckler clearly showed themselves up on their own, so all good. You bringing this all up again isn’t going to do you any favours.
Also while adhering to Geneva conventions
They could attack nuclear plants, blow up dams, destroy hospitals/kindergartens/apartments and torture and kill prisoners like them “ordinary” Russians do with disturbing regularity
But they don’t, instead concentrating on military and regime targets
While we in west do **** all, if Ukraine loses will we do the same while its EU cities that get attacked in same manner next?
which is why the Ukrainians now keep pleading with allies to allow them to use long range weapons within Russia
With this sentence you seem to imply, the “gamble” as you call it, is a failure. I wouldn’t agree with you. To me, Ukraine doesn’t gamble. They try to make maximum damage to Russia with as less loses as possible.
This is what I think of everytime I hear that Belarus is concentrating troops on their border with Ukraine.
It's not that "everything is a war crime these days" painting it as some new foolishness.
It is that a lot of this stuff (e.g. blowing up a dam so as to flood a region, and kill/drive all the people out of it) became "war crimes" post WW2.
Unfortunately for whatever reason we now seem to be regressing and may be entering a darker era where states with amoral/evil leadership that are powerful enough are going to do all of this stuff again unashamedly with impunity. Russia is leading the way and blazing the trail.
Perhaps something to do with WW2 receding from living memory?
With a promise from Uncle Vlad ……
Hazard a guess
( I'd give him max 36 hours )
He would be safe in Moscow?
……
it’s a clear war crime and not the first time either for Russia in this war
Articles 53 and 56 of 1970s amendments to Geneva conventions that both of the parties in this war signed up to
But from the Russian position it makes a lot of sense, everything is called a war crime these days, it's war, killing and impeding the other side is the name of the Game.
Yes it was a gamble and a morale booster at an important time and allowed them to do some serious damage to Russian equipment and facilitate prisoner exchanges. But is it turning the tide of the war? Doesn't look like it, which is why the Ukrainians now keep pleading with allies to allow them to use long range weapons within Russia, it's the only chance to keep some kind of momentum going. The allies should of course give a resounding Yes to this request
I know with regards to drones that are going 100s if not thousands of kms into each other's land I would of thought as each side has untold amounts I would of thought let's say the Ukrainian side would of launched a massive strike on say targets in Moscow but in say 1 operation say 5 to 10 thousand. More like when allies were bombing Berlin. Now I mean not to hit civilian targets but more government targets etc. I'm just surprised no side has launched something as massive as this in say 1 go. It's more a few dozen here few dozen there.
War Crime of the day
That's a good article, lots of reports from Pokrovsk about being outnumbered 4 to 1, shells shortage, one fired by Ukrainian Vs 10 by the Red army, new recruits who can't shoot properly and won't shoot men, experienced soldiers exhausted on the front line.
It probably was the right thing for Ukraine to do but there was a bit of desperation and roll of the dice, keeping going for pokvrosk is definitely the right thing for the reds, they get that and a large open stretch of country awaits them.
To add to that, here was me thinking he was Canadian.
Hope Belarus troops are well briefed on the “I want to live” program
Do they ?
I’m not sure if they do, but support for Ukraine would need to be further ramped up
Edit: not worth engaging
