Following on from
this thread
Please remain civil or posting privileges will be removed
I don't believe you.
You don't care. It's just because Mary Lou McDonald played a role and was thanked. I'll tell you how I know this:
"Thank you, Deputy McDonald, for bringing the case of Tori to my attention," he said. "I'm not directly appraised of the situation, but I'm very happy to be directly appraised of it now."He said that he would work with the deputy "to intervene and see how we can support an Irish citizen in what sounds to be - based on what you tell me - the most appalling circumstances".………“We want Tori Towey back in this country, we want her back home in Roscommon,” Harris said.“No effort will be spared by us, by Ireland, to make progress on this matter, to get Tori home. She’s not a criminal, she’s a victim of gender-based violence.”
"Thank you, Deputy McDonald, for bringing the case of Tori to my attention," he said. "I'm not directly appraised of the situation, but I'm very happy to be directly appraised of it now."
He said that he would work with the deputy "to intervene and see how we can support an Irish citizen in what sounds to be - based on what you tell me - the most appalling circumstances".
………
“We want Tori Towey back in this country, we want her back home in Roscommon,” Harris said.
“No effort will be spared by us, by Ireland, to make progress on this matter, to get Tori home. She’s not a criminal, she’s a victim of gender-based violence.”
They were two days at it. Then the tik tok Taoiseach practically live streamed it.
“I’ve just been informed that the travel ban has been lifted, that the embassy will take Tori to the airport as soon as she is ready to go and that the embassy, of course, will continue to follow up on the case, which is still active as of now,” Mr Harris told the Dáil on Wednesday afternoon.
Harris gets a pass because you support the.. Green party.
More dishonest diversion off you.
He apologised for the assault. I know he initially lied to the Garda, but #Ibelievehim
I have no interest in the back & forth. I only responded to this because a few posters lied about what had happened.
As they have nothing else to post about I expect this to be posted another 20-30 times over the next few weeks.
Please someone explain the difference here in what Harris says and in what Commandant Paul Togher said about Cathal Crotty
Simon Harris has described the Fine Gael’s John McGahon, who was ordered to pay €39,000 over an assault outside a pub, as an “extraordinarily hardworking” member of Seanad Eireann.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/pub-assault-senator-john-mcgahon-described-as-extraordinarily-hardworking-by-taoiseach/a1567897473.html
Crotty’s superior at Sarsfield Army Barracks, Commandant Paul Togher, told Crotty’s sentencing hearing that Crotty’s conduct in the forces had always been “exemplary”, “disciplined”, and “professional”, and Crotty had always been “courteous” in his dealings with the senior ranking officer.
https://www.limerickpost.ie/2024/06/20/limerick-soldier-avoids-jail-after-beating-a-woman-unconscious/
The Commandant was duty bound. Harris is a hypocrite.
Speaking out on the Natasha O'Brien assault and assault in general was good, but it was just empty worded PR. Like Harris' promise about the scoliosis waiting list
McGahon is Fine Gael family. His uncle was a FG TD. Also he was told not to run in 2020, but he did anyway. He lost. After defying FG HQ, FG made him a senator.
And here he is, put up as a candidate again, after a drunken assault. He's lucky the woman didn't press charges.
It's obvious he can do no wrong in the eyes of Fine Gael.
The reality is, the current government will be reelected because this Dail has had the Worst/Weakest opposition in the history of the State
Firstly if you vote for something you lose all right to complain about it IMO (or at least without being called a hypocrite). As I said before you can't have the Selma killing policy without the Bart killing policy. April is bonus month in our company, and colleagues always complain about only keeping 48% of it. Despite the "SF will be worse" mantra (which I hear a number of the same people trot out), none say "phew, only 52% gone up in smoke, it'd be at least 4pts worse under SF". My response is always simply "you voted for it, suck it up and maybe remember this next time you've a polling card in your hand".
The irony of course is if a person really does want right of centre/New PDs type party the worst, most counterproductive thing they can do is vote for FG. As you correctly say FG faces no threat from the right, only option is to force them right. Tell them politely but forcefully on the doorstep why you won't vote FG and then follow through and don't vote for FG. The less seats they get - the more likely the party or a new party (probably made up of ex FG TDs) emerges and goes right of centre economically.
Many many people do want more right of centre however they simply want that party to emerge without them doing anything - then they'll vote for it. They have a few options 1) start a party or run for election themselves (unrealistic for most people) 2) put up: vote in a way that tries to force a party or parties to the right economically 3) shut up
Unfortunately most people aren't prepared to put up, but then refuse to shut up. The "least left" nonsense is just that, nonsense. There won't be a fully SF + alphabet soup commie/PBP government (numbers aren't there - FF would probably be involved in any government involving SF). So anything not involving FG will still be broadly similar to what we have now - high tax, high spend, big state. In any case maybe we need a period of SF in government to derive an actual right/left divide in Irish politics.
I have no confidence that will happen, no confidence many people will vote along the lines of what they claim to want. I only have one vote, there isn't much I can do; but at least when the knock on the door comes I can say with a straight face that I don't vote FG and why
Tell them politely but forcefully on the doorstep why you won't vote FG and then follow through and don't vote for FG.
But what are you advising disaffected fiscal conservatives do, and tell FG canvassers they are doing, instead? Don't vote? Or vote for some the other established parties (who are all to the left of FG)? I don't see how either of these moves serves to 'force FG to the right'…
If the FG vote share falls and the commensurate gain is spread among the other main parties, I don't see how FG strategists conclude from that the way forward is the proverbial 'lurch to the right'…
I agree with both of you in that voting for FG and then complaining because they behave like FG is a waste of energy, however it is impossible to teach FG (or FF for that matter) a lesson, they will always be what they are.
After the crash FF tried to blame everyone but themselves. FG got in under the lie of doing things differently. If neither party learned from a massive historic economic crash, if neither decided to do anything differently, if neither will change policies despite creating and maintaining crises and refusing to stamp out cronyism and fraud/forgetfulness within their own ranks, they are what they are. You can either vote for them and accept that or vote for them and cover for all their very many flaws to try fool yourself and others that they aren't what they are.
FF/FG becoming partners is the most obvious sign that the country does not come first. FG went into government with FF, a party who FG spent decades lambasting, same with FF. If FF were so bad, how the hell is partnering with them a good move for Ireland? To be fair to FF, FG have out played them on the crony, forgetful side of things.
Everyone who votes FF/FG know what they are getting. If they don't like it, there are plenty of other ways to vote.
We will likely see similar again, but that's because the two traditional largest parties with the largest grass roots support have joined. Not because they got more popular, but because they are on a downward spiral, even in local elections. Better to divide the spoils than to have none.
Nowhere did I say vote for other parties, or indeed any party. I can't tell other people what to do, but here's what I will do. There's not a single party in the country that in anyway get even close to resembling my ethos. Not within an asses roar. I won't vote for any of them.
My way is to vote (non racist, non loony) Independent. IMO this is the only way to send FG a message
Worst case scenario: my independent of choice is not elected or wallows on the opposition side of the house. We continue to get high tax, high spend, big state. When the knock on the door comes I can say with a straight face that I don't vote FG and why
Almost best case scenario:my independent of choice is bribed to help form a government. We continue to get high tax, high spend, big state. when the knock on the door comes I can say with a straight face that I don't vote FG and why. But I might actually benefit from all the out of control government spending via a bit of old fashioned parish pump (Healy-Rae/Tony Gregory style)
Best case (but very unlikely) scenario: FG loses the maximum amount of seats possible to said independents. A party analysis shows that there is an appetite for right of centre, party moves that way. Or a new PD Nua party emerges. I start to vote for that party. When the knock on the door comes I say I'm voting for them and why - but I won't be fooled twice if they fail to deliver
The "right" has gone all in on the woke-y, racist, misogynistic, xenophobic stuff rather than being fiscally conservative on taxes and spending and that puts a lot of people off.
It will probably be another 5 years or so before this unwinds itself (as they bleed support to the centre but enjoy some minor successes).
To be fair, there's a heap of people who voted for FG in 2020 who wouldn't have countenanced giving them a preference if it brought FF back into government.
only
But unless the Independents in question are explicitly advocating the kind of fiscal policies you favour I don't see how voting for them is sending the 'right' message to FG. I'm not aware that any of the current Independent TDs are 'right wing' in that sense, in any committed way. If the Independent of your choice is just some generic parish-pump primer from FF or FG gene pools, I don't see how the second part of this scenario follows from the first, any more than it would if FG were losing seats to FF or the 'soft left'.
FG loses the maximum amount of seats possible to said independents. A party analysis shows that there is an appetite for right of centre, party moves that way.
@Loafing Oaf
"But unless the Independents in question are explicitly advocating the kind of fiscal policies you favour I don't see how voting for them is sending the 'right' message to FG."
The message is simple - I'll tell a FG canvasser why I'll not vote FG, and then actually follow through and not vote FG and instead do what most people do: be selfish (in this instance vote and hope for parish pump)
"I don't see how the second part of this scenario follows from the first, any more than it would if FG were losing seats to FF or the 'soft left'."
It's unlikely - hence that's why I said it was in my post (remember I called it "Best case (but very unlikely) scenario"). A more likely scenario is "status quo + parish pump". I'll take that over the status quo + I don't benefit from fiscal irresponsibility that I'll end up paying for disproportionately if/when it goes tits up.
But fine - you seem to think economically right of centre people should settle for least left. Tbh I think more people will follow that path than mine; but they're hypocrites and as I said if (when really) they moan to me I'll tell them to stop moaning about getting what they voted for
This is my position - every time I post it your posts replying seem to be along the lines of "don't be silly lads - stick with FG" rather than advocating for following through on their (alleged) ethos so i'll not bother responding again.
I'm sure there's more than a few 'the public want change' voted for 'no grand coalition' FF too.
Yeah "New Politics" has been great. Many FG TDs sailing off into the sunset sniggering at that con job. Not an ounce of reform but bucket loads of cronyism, corruption and waste all over our political system.
The Irish Fiscal Council is made up of people with PhDs in Economics who work in leading institutions like Oxford:
https://www.fiscalcouncil.ie/about-the-council/
Their members are "appointed by the Minister for Finance based on their experience and competence in domestic and international macroeconomic and fiscal matters."
So they're literally international experts, appointed by our current government. The fact they're now advising against what the government is doing doesn't make them "right-wing economists".
(and aren't Fine Gael meant to be a right-wing party anyway?)
Social Justice Ireland's manifesto would also include heavily increasing taxes to pay for their spending. And, regardless, is a rather obvious attempt at goal post moving.
The facts of the matter are most independent, or expert, financial or economic bodies have called this budget reckless and unneccessary. Its very obviously a dangerous electoral giveaway budget, of exactly the same kinda as the Bertie Ahern years.
You claimed our spending was rising to match our growing GDP. Then when called out on that claimed you actually meant GNI. Then I gave you the exact data for recent years to show our spending is rising far more rapidly than our GNI. In exactly the samy ways as happened in the years preceding 2008. But do keep trying.
I never claimed I actually meant GNI.
Here's a thought. By 2011 the country was in a mess after decades of FF management. A decade later, the country is far from a mess, record living standards, highest number of first-time buyers ever, increases in lifespan, so something must have changed under FG, so they did deliver change.
I will continue to correct the lies posted here. You are calling out the same poster on his lies as I have been doing.
Here's some facts. There are more homeless children than ever before and that's the case for several years now.
People are still being left on hospital trolleys.
Moriarty is gathering dust.
FG brought FF back to government.
The number of first time buyers has increased by 2% since 2017, well done FG. The age of the average first time buyer has increased too, as has the population.
They certainly break records in all their crises.
And would of been in an even worse mess if FG got into power in 07, I'm sure u won't argue with this cause u know you're a Green voter 😂
On what basis do you claim that?
Did any party in 2007 have a massively different plan to FF?
The massive affect the crash would have across the World was not just limited to Ireland, none of the parties going into that election had a plan which would have made a blind bit of a difference to the situation we ended up in
and aren't Fine Gael meant to be a right-wing party anyway?
Are they? They don't market themselves as such and haven't for a long time, probably back pre-Garret days…
Joan Burton and Richard Bruton, in their budget speeches in the couple of years running up to the 2007 general election warned that FF were wasting the Celtic Tiger riches. Remember McCreevy and his I'll spend it if I have it. That was routinely criticised by both opposition spokespersons.
Contrast that with the way that the current government is putting money aside into longer-term funds to pay for pensions etc. A very different approach. Lessons were learned.
Yes lessons got learned but only after the crash
In reality nobody knew how deep the sh*t was in Anglo, which of course they lied about as well and took out Quinn.
Unless CBOI came out and said the sh*t was about to hit the fan and pointed to the actual issues. Problem was CBOI had no f**king idea what was going on
I don't remember many at the time saying we are going to hit the wall to the affect we did
I remember the budget speeches of Burton and Bruton who opposed what McCreevy was doing and made sense.
In contrast the budget speeches of Doherty are pathetic and cringe-worthy. We have probably the worst opposition ever.
Pearse who wants to "tax the rich" but can't decide who the rich are or what they earn
At the same time pushing for a tax break for every rich person in Ireland 🤯
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