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German court jails woman for insulting convicted rapist.

political analyst

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/28/german-woman-given-harsher-sentence-than-rapist-for-calling/

In Hamburg, 20-year-old Maja R was found guilty of defamation because she called a young male who was one of a gang of nine that raped at 15-year-old girl in a park in that city in 2020 a "disgraceful rapist pig" and a "disgusting freak". She made those comments in a direct message to him via Whatsapp after his name and number were leaked on Snapchat. She also told him he "couldn't go anywhere without getting kicked in the face" and said "Let's hope you are just locked away."

Due to his age, he only got a suspended sentence. Maja R was jailed for a weekend for her comments because of her previous conviction for theft and her failure to attend the court hearing for the case. Only 1 member of the gang was jailed. The case has laid bare Germany's harsh defamation laws, which criminalise causing offence with even mild slurs like "idiot" and can lead to up to 2 years in prison.

Just for context, here's an interview with the judge who presided over the rape trial. The interview was published in Der Spiegel on 22 March 2024 and can be read on the following Reddit page.

https://www.reddit.com/r/stupidpol/comments/1dnnv0g/about_that_migrant_gang_rape_in_hamburg/?rdt=55803

Here's a summary of what Judge Anne Maier-Goering said in the interview (and a disclaimer on my part: The following points are the judge's, not mine):

According to the German understanding of punishment, the primary goal of legal consequences are not retribution, but above all that the accused does not commit any new crimes. This is especially true in juvenile criminal law.

The proceedings were not in public. The court's explanatory statement of the verdict was primarily addressed to those involved in the proceedings, the defendants, the defense attorneys, the joint plaintiff and the public prosecutor. Therefore, only those involved in the proceedings know the whole truth. That is a good thing, because it protects the plaintiff (the victim) in particular, who remembers almost nothing from the night of the crime. She should not be retraumatized by new information that becomes public. In the short public verdict announcement, I therefore left out many details - as in this interview - that also concerned the plaintiff's behavior and that were very crucial for the determination of legal consequences.

The incident did not involve physical violence. The victim willingly went with the defendants. But they took advantage of her severely mentally and physically impaired state - behaviour that would not have been punishable in Germany until November 2016, and everyone would have been acquitted. That is why what was reported in the "Bild" newspaper is so irresponsible and inflammatory: "Nine barbarians attack a young girl. With their orgy of violence, the rapists destroy a child's soul." That is deliberate spreading of fake news. It crosses a line and turns the general public against the justice system.

Why is it that such harsh laws on defamation are still in place in Germany? One would've assumed that the German authorities would have learned from the obvious horrors of the past 100 years of their country's history.

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Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058357788/german-court-jails-woman-for-insulting-convicted-rapist

Four of the juvenile sentences imposed were suspended on probation with comprehensive sanctions and instructions for educational support.

Marxist ideology is wonderful.

They really think that they can just "teach" rapists not to rape other people.

Strumms

so a convicted rapist of an underage girl is enabled to become a victim by a headbanger judge who convicted another person who used fair and accurate language to describe the rapist..….

What…a…time…to…be…alive 🥱

susan678

So if I was in Germany I could go to jail for saying this judge is a waste and a total wnaker.

endacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320053#Comment_122320053

‘Marxist ideology’? The workers owning the means of production? What does that have to do with defamation? I’m beginning to think you may not fully understand the terms you use Francie…

Rustyman101

Absolutely scandalous decision, hurty words get more punishment than physical actions.

We are collectively ****** as a society if this becomes the norm.

I'd imagine Helen & ROG would be in favour of this logic.

How did we end up on this road, some of the scenario's of the last 2 years have been like something out of a dystopian fiction novel.

Would love to know the plan and more specifically the out come........

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320053#Comment_122320053

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320147#Comment_122320147

what the livin fcuk!

id love to know what this has to do with Marxism, seriously i would, since ive no idea what the craic is with marxism?

…looking forward to your explanation?

silverharp

I remember in the early 90's wishing I'd lived in Germany , they seemed streets ahead of Ireland or the UK at the time and erm my family have 2nd German passports, now I'd veto any permanent move there, its going to the dogs at a rapid pace.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320237#Comment_122320237

family living in berlin, tis all good, far superior public transport etc….

Jequ0n

Harsh, but I suspect that her words had been interpreted in a racist context (which would be even more worrying).

The rape case had been a right mess and the suspended sentences were large due to lack of concrete evidence. It was not helped by the fact that the victim had been extremely drunk either. It’s actually a very interesting case if you read up on it in detail.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320263#Comment_122320263

true in the sense that Germany has nice pockets, Berlin , Munich, if you like the quiet life there are lots of idyllic small towns in the south, however looking to the future if you lived there you would certainly have to switch off the news and avoid an increasing number of places, make sure your kids or grandkids are raised in a nice middle class German area and not some "nulticulti" sh1t hole where you would fear for their safety , apart from that its grand.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320281#Comment_122320281

shur pockets of ireland are slowly becoming no go areas to, its always been so, the area where im from has always been a no go, but tis grand really

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320288#Comment_122320288

Direction-ally is the issue , I remember in the 90's, places like Essen looked ok , now I would draw a diameter of 1000km and say better not, stick to the safe and prosperous regions with the "good schools"

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320280#Comment_122320280

It was not helped by the fact that the victim had been extremely drunk either.

Amazing how this level of victim blaming/shaming passes with absolute ease when the perpetrators of the crime are not natives.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320320#Comment_122320320

Where did I blame the victim? Reports mention her high blood alcohol level which is why the case was so dependent on witnesses and other evidence.

Manic Moran

Failure to appear in court leads to weekend in jail. (Para 2 of OP). News at 11.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320147#Comment_122320147

Marxists view crime as a product of capitalist inequalities and see the criminal justice system as a tool of social control protecting capitalist interests. They advocate for rehabilitation through education and social reform rather than punishment.

No normal person would ever suggest "education support" as punishment for rape of a 15 year old, only a Marxist.

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320053#Comment_122320053

why the other people qualifier

They really think that they can just "teach" rapists not to rape other people

Surprised you are in here given the track record of you know who in this arena.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320417#Comment_122320417

Not really sure what point you are trying to make here.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320310#Comment_122320310

I spent a year in Essen recently, place was fine. There were a few areas on the northern side of the city that didn't seem great alright, but I always felt far safer than in the rough part of any Irish city.

Mick ah

Gentlemen,

Germany has extremely harsh defamation laws. Everyone here knows this. You can't say someone is "X", however you can describe their behaviour as "X".

The problem I see with the German justice system is that it was designed for Germans. Who are orderly, generally work for the public good and who create a high trust environment for each other. (Obviously there are exceptions, but in smaller cities, towns and villages you wouldn't believe how safe it feels, even some of the bigger cities are grand).

The problem is, the system quite simply cannot deal with people from other cultures and most crimes are committed by non Germans or "Germans" with a "migration background". This is well known in the country, but you were a "nazi" for stating this up until maybe 10 years ago.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320263#Comment_122320263

In many ways Germany is still stuck in the 90s

gym_imposter

I really like Germans but some aspects of the country are odd indeed

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320176#Comment_122320176

Who brought them in?

Who makes excuses for them, it's never their culture. It's the patriarchy, colonialism, capitalist dehumanisation m, Zionist oppression etc etc.

Always someone else's fault.

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320344#Comment_122320344

It's my comment on the report itself, not necessarily directed at you personally.

Padre_Pio

Maja R was jailed for a weekend for her comments because of her previous conviction for theft and her failure to attend the court hearing for the case.

Sorry, was she jailed for the comments? Or her previous conviction? Or not showing up to court?

Seems like a click bait title.

[Deleted User]

All were under 20 at the time, allowing them to be subject to juvenile law. Only one of them spent any time in jail, an Iranian national, who was 19 years old at the time, though it’s not clear why. Speaking about the rape in court, he asked: “What man doesn’t want that?”

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320344#Comment_122320344

seems that one of them made things pretty clear.

xyz13

The world is upside down.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320724#Comment_122320724

In this instance, I have to agree and this is what I'm wondering too.

Maja R was jailed for a weekend for her comments because of her previous conviction for theft and her failure to attend the court hearing for the case.

So if she turned up, she most likely would have been convicted of defamation, but not jailed?

Either way, the world has gone nuts when a convicted rapist only receives a suspended sentence.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320839#Comment_122320839

Useful for the persecution that he was too stupid to know when to keep his mouth shut. They had dna evidence from him and some of the others anyway though.
It’s concerning that he didn’t realise how at odds his view was with local law and customs.

AllForIt

Huh, Leftie Laws.

If I were her I would issue a statement of apology for insulting pigs. Pigs have feelings too you know.