Please use this thread to continue discussing the war in Ukraine.
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Original thread:
It's only getting started. Weird and wonderful things to come.
I still remember the footage of the FPV drone trying to chase a KA-52 a few months back.
I've also seen larger quadcopters ferrying FPV and releasing them to extend their range.
Won't be long untill we see a FPV drone taking down a shahed drone.
It's been an eye opening war for the effectiveness of cheap drones.
People like them are in every population and usually called contrarians. Regardless of the situation at any given time they will always go against the grain just for the sake of it. Being an obfuscation gives them nourishment. Expect frustration and feeling nihilistic dealing with them at their level. Ignore is your best friend.
Ah you're back again. Now concern trolling over Ukrainian figures (previously you were acting outraged over Russian casualties on annexed territory due to Putin's invasion)
While you are still in the thread, out of curiosity, why does support of Ukraine trigger you so much?
Assuming for a second you aren't actually a Kremlin bot, if another neutral country, for example, Ireland were being invaded by Putin and Irish people were being slaughtered in the same way the Ukrainians are, for the same reasons - would you be making these same remarks?
I've seen a few videos like this recently
Just took the figure from what I got when I did a google search for the number and it presented a graph that is said to have the World Bank as the source. Not sure what methodology they use in their calculations. It shows a peak of population in Ukraine about 1993 of over 52million and a gradual drop up until 2021 and a more rapid drop since then. Not sure if they include territory occupied by putin but I guess the figure of over 52million in 1993 would include all of the territory inside Ukraine's internationally recognised borders. There is from what I have read a lot of forced migration within Ukraine due to the invasion so I would imagine a lot of the younger Ukrainians from the occupied territories are now living further to the west in the country.
No idea how many of these people would be wanting a victory for putin but seeing some of what he has done to their homes in the east of Ukraine I would imagine his support amongst the Ukrainian people is significantly less now than it might have been before the full scale invasion. I am in no way saying Ukraine can field an army of 44million people and think this figure includes a number who would not be able to put up much resistance to putin's terrorists. There are a lot more things people can do to help fight putin than carry a gun on the front lines and I have seen videos produced showing how some retired elderly people in Ukraine help out by producing camouflage and some household sized drone assembly operations look to be very productive in the number of putin's terrorists they help to eliminate. As we have seen with support for Ireland from abroad in history from Irish people who found success after leaving I'd imagine there are a lot of Ukrainians living abroad who are very supportive of their relatives suffering from putin's terrorism in their homeland. The figures I found would suggest this number would amount to millions of potential supporters for Ukraine living abroad. Canada alone is said to have a population of 1.36million Canadian Ukrainians and this may explain some of the support from these countries governments for Ukraine.
A little bit of history
Lets see if true, have doubts
Coming right on the heels of the Biden - Trump debate debacle now is the French Election this weekend.. Le Pen's party are favourites and she was quite a big fan of Putin up until the most recent invasion forced her to change her (public) tune
In total, 615 airplanes and 276 helicopters, 26,777 unmanned aerial vehicles, 533 air defence missile systems, 16,446 tanks and other armoured fighting vehicles, 1,357 combat vehicles equipped with MLRS, 11,020 field artillery guns and mortars, as well as 23,049 units of special military equipment have been destroyed during the special military operation. - Ukranian losses as per Russian MOD
Is that your source? I only ask as before the invasion Ukraine had just under 2000 pieces of artillery and since then have received about 1000 from the west. So the Russians claim to have destroyed nearly 4x as many as Ukraine actually have?
When the OP referenced 1000 field guns, I assume he meant 155mm artillery and not mortars and unguided MLRS. So the figures would be even smaller.
Ukraine does have 44 million people but does that include all regions of Ukraine like Crimea and other regions that Russia has falsely occupied? Also the 44 million probably includes pro Russians in that figure that are fighting against Ukraine and who want a Russian victory. Also with people who have left Ukraine. I say the figure is considerably less that Ukraine can actually look to get people to fight for them.
So what are the correct numbers for lost artillery pieces and soldiers then?
As Ryan McBeth said at the start of the war, Ukraine trades territory for lives, Russia trades lives for territory.
We're seeing the fruits of this over the past months. Record casualties on the Russian side, easily a million men killed and wounded over the past years, and videos of untrained, poorly equipped conscripts getting massacred by artillery and drones.
No doubt Ukraine have problems, but Russia is breaking itself on Ukrainian defences. A town here, a village there, what does it matter when the defenders have months to fortify the next town and the next village.
I never said Russia isn't loosing men. Both sides are loosing men all the time it's just for some reason some people cannot get their heads around the fact that a very high number of Ukrainians have died.
I have heard of putin's shortage of fighting men and the need they have to import poor people from other parts of the globe to keep their cannon fodder stocks in Ukraine maintained so they can hold on to the parts of Ukraine putin has illegally occupied. Latest I read is that even north Korea is thinking of helping him out with his cannon fodder shortage.
I don't think Ukraine has suffered insignificant losses but it had a population of almost 44million before putin's more widespread attacks in 2022 and unlike the war of choice that putin has engaged in, Ukraine is fighting for its survival so has a much more willing group of people to source soldiers from. Ukrainians have a choice between getting murdered by putin's terrorists if they stop fighting or defending themselves and running the risk of getting killed when trying to stop genocide in their country. It is often said as well that defending forces have an advantage over those attacking by having prepared positions so losses in putin's forces are likely to be much larger. A lot of putin's forces have died and been injured and recruiting replacements is going to continue to be more and more difficult as it becomes obvious to more people that there is nothing he can achieve by occupying parts of Ukraine.
Good article on the current situation on the Kherson bridgehead
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjerdw9g159o
Well now if we are all so gullible I have a few magic beans I'd sell you for a good price.
Why is there a shortage of fighting men because they have all died and been injured.
What's your source for the numbers of losses Ukrainians have suffered at the hands of putin's terrorists, the kremlin?
What was it you said, Germany hope to field 1000 field guns by 2030? And you said they would last a few months in a war with Russia? I don't even think Ukraine has lost that much in over 2 years fighting.
Ukraine has lost far more than 1000 field guns. What planet are you on? You probably still believe Zelenski saying that only 41000 soldiers has died.
The Putin administration must be delighted and also feeling justified at the apparent decadence at the core of one of their big opponents. The weakness of them that they can only put up these two elderly pensioners for the highest office in the state. Don't be surprised if Vlad starts lecturing us on the final years of the Roman empire.
"I think it would be a mistake to fall into this trap, when precision long range fires are the real threat to Russia and should be prioritised."
The losses of putin's artillery systems have consistently been very high in recent weeks with the Ukrainians clearly having identified good ways of eliminating them. They claim to have knocked out another 57 yesterday. I remember a post about a soldier that came from Ireland having knocked out three artillery systems himself in one day using FPV drones and I would not be surprised if these play a role in making traditional artillery less effective on the battlefield so I agree it would be a mistake for the EU to simply copy what putin's military are doing. All the ammunition in the world is of little use if the means to deliver them to targets are destroyed as soon as they become active.
She is vice president.
I think a distinction has to be drawn between artillery as a whole and basic unguided 152/155 artillery shells because Russia is constantly trying to suggest that they are better because they produce more of the latter.
However, the current war in Ukraine has shown that precision long range fires are far more important and can successfully disrupt logistics and prevent rapid advances.
It would be nice to see either cheaper production of the current precision fires like GMLRS and excalibur (or even precision guidance kits) due to scale etc, or some cheaper alternative generally that isnt as capable but does a similar job. The GLSDB was such a proposal but it is unclear how successful its been.
But the key point is that Russia is gearing up to produce millions of unguided shells every year and there are calls for US/EU to do likewise. I think it would be a mistake to fall into this trap, when precision long range fires are the real threat to Russia and should be prioritised.
Artillery is considered the "King of Battle" for a reason. It has a far greater impact on shaping the battlefield at division level and below than any other system in the miltary arsenal and that's in a maneuver-centric miltary like the US. (And frankly, few nations in the West have anything higher than division level capability anyway).
Apparently a lot of orders were placed at Eurosatory last week. Not so much because the militaries in question felt that the equipment on offer was absolutely what they wanted, but because they realized that if they didn't order anything now, it would be many years before they could order anything at all. There is basically the miltary production equivalent of a bank rush going on.
I can certainly understand (pre-Russian Invasion) why Europe's main focus wasn't continuing to arm like during the cold war.
It always seems to go back to artillery, What was it you said, Germany hope to field 1000 field guns by 2030? And you said they would last a few months in a war with Russia? I don't even think Ukraine has lost that much in over 2 years fighting.
It always puzzled me, European countries with nuclear weapons, cruise missiles, submarines, aircraft carries, stealth fighters… having to rely on plain aul artillery. What kind of war would they be facing and against whom? Some post apocalypse Russia?
EMP fried all the tech so we're back to WWI tactics?
Europe's militaries are so degraded that ramping up for 10 years time would be an achievement.
Across most of Europe the will just isn't there.
I think rearmament and preparation for future conflict is the most important issue facing Europeans today, by some distance.
Kamala who?
Seems like she disappeared after the 2020 election
Just going off what I heard on the radio this morning but it was also suggested that Gretchen Whitmer would be a good alternative Democrat candidate if Biden can be convinced it is better to let someone else run in his place. She is from Michigan which I think was referred to as a battleground state so a win there for her could be significant in winning the election.
The point was made as well that Trump did not come across very well either with his unpleasant character showing and numerous blatant lies highlighted during the debate.
he won’t be elected
It is always possible for Kamala Harris to get in the driving seat once he is elected.
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