Please use this thread to continue discussing the war in Ukraine.
All mod instructions from the previous thread remain in force here
Original thread:
When people say Ukraine should have remained neutral, they actually mean Russia should be allowed to do whatever they want. That's why no smaller European country bordering Russia stayed neutral. It's not aggressive NATO expansion, it's countering Russian aggression.
Russia is heavily promoting Crimea as a holiday resort for Russians, basically, they are using Russian civilians as human shields.
of course it could have, if the US had the ability to conduct genuine diplomacy and not greedy oneup-mansship, Europe would be a different place. As it is the yanks seem to have played themselves and only strengthened China and Islam in the process plus weakening Europe, in my lifetime I have never seen the US so weak, its only a 50/50 they stay number one or go into a debt spiral
If it's the Air Forces, might it be F-16s already? Or are Ukrainian planes capable of such an attach inside Russia ?
Neutrality is just an excuse for Russia to invade. Countries join NATO because the alternative is Russian domination.
Look at Belarus for what Russia had lined up for Ukraine.
Look at how Russia 'respects' Moldovan 'neutrality' by refusing to respect agreements to remove forces from Transnistria.
We have seen even Finland and Sweden abandon the neutrality they maintained vis a vis USSR all through the Cold War, in recognition of this.
Anyone who thinks 'neutrality' would have preserved Ukrainian independence and sovereignty - or for that matter that of the Baltic States - clearly hasn't been paying attention.
one of us one of us one of us certainly helps
do a search of NATO and Ukraine going back to the 90's and naughties, there is no point "starting the clock in 2014"
i couldnt be arsed reading the article but this doesnt scream neutrality , they would have been better served treating NATO with a barge pole
"Fifteen years ago, on 9 July 1997, the Charter on a Distinctive Partnership between NATO and Ukraine was signed. It identified areas for consultation and cooperation, and established the NATO-Ukraine Commission to take work forward. Since then, dialogue and practical cooperation have become well-established in a wide range of areas"
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_89037.htm
What a pathetic post. You have absolutely zero proof there was any deliberate attack on civilians. If you do then back it up now.
Russia has been bombing the sh**t out of Kharkiv now for a long time killing multiple civilians, where is your outrage at that?
Crimea has military defences in the vicinity of this beach, the most obvious explanation here would be that an intercepted missile maybe caused this.
The blame for every civilian life lost in Ukraine wether accidental or on purpose lies squarely with the Russian invaders who have brought this hell on Ukraine and it's people. It can all stop tomorrow if Putin stops this genocidal rampage.
Cryptic
What kind of simpleton goes to the beach in a war zone in any case. Hill walking through a mine field or paragliding near an airforce base are all good ideas too I suppose.
You can pretty much guarantee that Ukraine didn't target them but it's hard to have sympathy with anyone stupid enough to do such a thing with special contempt for anyone vile enough to bring children there.
Sure what could go wrong? Not much emphasis on Health and Safety in Ruzzia.
Also don't you think that if Ukraine had injured 100 people and killed a handful that pictures of it would be all over the internet?
The Russians are just lying to try and get the Americans to take ATACMS out of their hands. Because Russian air defense are getting bodied by them and they're desperate for any solution.
It's just like that time that Russia claimed Ukraine had shot down a planeful of POWs when they shot down the IL76 a few months back. Lies. And until there's further proof Russians don't get the benefit of the doubt.
They were not targetting civilians. The target was a military base in Sevastopol, ru air defence intercepted and debris fell to the beach. Theres actual pictures of debris from ru ad missile on the beach. So you can actually say russians themselves attacked their own people.
That video shows nothing. And even if it did Ukraine aren't in the habit of using their crown jewels weapons on civilians.
So at best it was an accident\misfire(or more likely didn't happen) and at worst it's Russian lies. Again.
Russians have been verifiably bombing the ever loving f*ck out of Kharkiv and Ukrainian civilians for years now. Without a military target in sight. Interesting that you only choose to pipe up about this suspected war crime. Though now that I think about it it's not very interesting at all. Back in your cave troll. You're fooling noone.
A good few places got hit seemingly. The Space communications centre in Vityne, a military complex between Molochne and Uiutne, explosions then were heard from Zaozerne, Yevpatoriia and Donuzlav.
Innocent??? They are fully complicit with the evil war crimes their state has engaged in. Pariahs one and all.
there are/were an active air defence plus radar on the clifftop overhead that beach
Barely zero mention of deliberately targeting civilians in Odessa with cluster munitions.
And a drone gets shot down over a beach in Crimea and it's all war.
Seems to have a been a very large satellite receiving complex of dishes and buildings.
Who deliberately targeted civilians in which incident? Be specific thanks.
Again, zero evidence of that on the video. For all we know there could have been a shark in the water for what that video shows.
Interesting
Things still ongoing with insurgents...
Russian telegrams up in arms in Crimea. Something big got hit.
Deliberately targeting civilians. Ask Israel they are the masters of that.
Well Rogber as I see it, Putin has locked himself into a corner. Ukraine is not going to yield any part of Ukraine to Putin. And Putin can't survive just going back to Moscow empty handed. As for the comparison between Ireland and England, those are completely different scenarios… Had Putin been Churchill, we'd still be part of the UK. Because bad and all as the British were, they were nowhere near as brutal and destructive as Putin is. It will end at some time, of course and hopefully soon, but more than likely not for a good while yet. As for what form that ending will take, I don't know, but that's my present thinking on it,
..
Magomed Omarov the politician who could have been taken from the police is a member of Putin's party United Russia.
But they shouldn’t be there.
Crimea is an illegally occupied part of Ukraine with Russian military bases stationed there during a war which are legitimate targets.
Those people there and are incredibly stupid.
But then again they probably think the war is going all rosy and Russia are justified in trying to wipe Ukraine off the face off the planet.
What is the suspected war crime?
