Please use this thread to continue discussing the war in Ukraine.
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Original thread:
Europe has always backed peace!
Are you suggesting that secretly Europe have been pushing for war with Russia all along?
While also being their number one buyer of gas and oil,making them filthy rich,so rich they could have built their army to be one of the most powerful armies on the planet and destroy Europe within weeks, and also investing in infrastructure and helping them to come into the 21 century, but all this time Europe have wanted war with Russia, that was very sneaky of Europe.
I wonder how Russia will cope having to import oil and fuel, after the Ukrainians decimate the Russian ability to refine oil.
So you're saying Europe should have invaded Russia.
What was wrong with the peace in UKr after UssR broke up in 1991 . OR , for that matter , what was fundamentally wrong with the peace that existed in UKr up to 2014? The level of peace that existed in Russia after 1991 has nothing to do with Ukr
The entire national identity of Russia would need to drastically change in order for this to happen. (As drastically as Germany did post 1945)
of the 150m of a population all that is needed is one man/woman with a gun or whatever to do the needful so I would not be too dispondent - I’d take the risk of he being replaced by someone worse. But I’d say that his replacement would have learned his lesson by just observing what has beeen going on and decide that it’s best that Ru cooperates with the west, et al. This could take 10 years +++ to achieve
corneliusbrown Not worth it to whom? Its the Ukrainians who sre fighting and dying for their country and they consider it worth it.
If its not worth it for the Russians, they can just go back home whenever they want
After all, Ukraine is a faraway country of which we know little, right?
God there's a lot of these types showing up lately right? The Kremlin apologists are getting properly riled up for some reason. Russia must be getting pretty desperate. This is great news! 😁
You were posting meaningless comments yesterday along similar lines, somehow trying to make the US culpable. When asked to spell out the details, to spell out what could have been done differently to protect Ukraine from Russian domination and invasion ... nothing.
Another pro Russian masquerade.
You are not for peace. You are for Russian tyranny. Pro Russian atrocity. Pro Russian war crimes. Pro Russian victory. A Russian peace is the peace of the grave. You would reward Russia with Ukrainian territory by your refusal to condemn them, that is not a recipe for peace but for more illegal aggressive wars of conquest and plunder and atrocity.
What does this mean in practical terms? Should they have just let Russia take over Ukraine or what are we talking about?
How do you think that the Syrians managed when their infrastructure was badly damaged, and at times completely shut down? I'll tell you. They used generators, thousands of them, small 3,4,5 Kva and upwards for houses etc. businesses used larger ones. During the time when the grid was active, the electricity was shared out in zones, and the OFF zones switched on their generators. They have managed for years like this, and still do at times. Ukrainians will manage too.
there’s no hope at all those lads are ever getting crimea back. The sooner a negotiated solution happens the better. It’s not worth the suffering and loss of life.
They will eventually.
And there it is ….. more transparent than glass
When you are dealing with mad dictatorships like Putin's, there ARE no "middle" grounds. He wins or he loses, end of story. And if he wins in Ukraine, do you think that will be the end of it? Putins regime has to be obliterated 100%, preferably by outside forces, but change from within at this point would be good too. I'm not a great believer in the mantra that whoever comes after Putin could be worse, yes, that's possible, but what's 100% certain is that Putin has pretty much spent the cash and destroyed much of his military both in terms of manpower and equipment. And what will ultimately finish him if nothing else does is the Russian population themselves. For ordinary Russians, between the sanctions (and yes, they work) increasing interest rates (meaning higher payments on loans) inflation, etc. and now on top of all this, to compensate for the shortage of workers, working hrs are to be increased again, including weekends, but without any increase in salaries.
And what is your vision of peace? Peace amounts to Russia leaving Ukraine. Allowing Russia to take parts of Ukraine would firstly be enabling Russia to engage in expansionism. Nothing was done when Russia took Crimea so it gave them confidence to go further.
This time round, they've gotten resistance. Their military has been decimated and they won't be able to expand. The only complaint most people have is that the West isn't giving them enough military assistance.
You don't end up with peace when a nation invades, takes your sovereignty, kidnaps your children and commits genocide. Peace is Russia leaving, paying reparations and the likes of Putin going on trial for war crimes. Peace is not leaving Russia off.
maybe they should have been backing peace
Europe (by the very most part) is backing Ukraine, not Russia. You're not making sense.
How is Russia going to cope… Russia up the creek and heading back to the stone age. Putin has destroyed everything Russia built up from 1990 to 2020 thanks to his ill-balanced notion of his own importance. The man is a crazed mafia goon. Russia now depends on North African countries for manpower in the Russian army—North Korea for weapons and by the looks of it, Micky Mouse for a friend.
It is bad, but I think they will survive.
This extensive damage to grid/thermal + power plants Russia managed this year is (partly) a fruit of the stupid NATO/US "non escalation" reactive policy in dealing with Russia wouldn't you say? Also the silly Republican block/strike on providing military aid that lasted for half a year or so.
NATO/US have hemmed themselves in long past sense with all sorts of red lines and tripwires all over the place, where Putin/Russia are free to escalate and adapt/adjust their strategy as they like in Ukraine (and elsewhere), bar perhaps use of nuclear weapons (China/India have said they would not be happy).
Putin is just a dictator with nukes and has consolidated power in the last year. Russia is further away from removing him from any other point in his reign imo.
https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2024/0621/1455901-russia-wagner/
Ukrferry restarted its operations in July 2023 with its ferry Vilnius (9,341 dwt) operating between Romania and Georgia. Additionally, at the end of May, the Ukrainian Sea Ports Authority reported that negotiations were underway to also resume a ferry service connection to Baku, Azerbaijan on the Caspian Sea
Ukrferry restarted its operations in July 2023 with its ferry Vilnius (9,341 dwt) operating between Romania and Georgia.
Additionally, at the end of May, the Ukrainian Sea Ports Authority reported that negotiations were underway to also resume a ferry service connection to Baku, Azerbaijan on the Caspian Sea
This reminds me maybe the ultimate success so far.
Russia are in no position to invade and occupy any other countries, they simply don't have the manpower.
Read an article recently and it mentioned all the major rich oligarchs who support Putin and have a big influence on politics behind the scenes are not happy with the effect of the sanctions, travel restrictions and business opportunities now in place. They feel that the future does not look bright. They would not be happy having to holiday in North Korea or Iran while their children would have to avail of Universities in Pyongyang or Tehran or other unattractive totalitarian countries. Gone are the days that they could avail of the tax havens of the World while sending their sons and daughters to the attractive cities of Europe!
No, jesus, that was your take from his post?! Do share your list of permitted talking points why don't you. It was a f**king observation. Don't be so paranoid, or are we back to looking for Reds under the Bed again after a few months where this thread was actually interesting and informative?
I think they won't have to cope nearly as hard as all the (Kremlin apologist\Both sides\Ukraine should negotiate) posters have been coping recently. They've been flooding the thread this past while since the Swiss peace summit for some reason.
Don't forget also it was Russia that suffered the most last winter since their infrastructure is crumbling and every penny that could fix all the bursting pipes and breaking dams is being used to send all the maintenance lads to die in Ukraine.
What do you think? Do you think Ukraine could be on to a winning formula soon since they have pretty much all of the worlds most influential countries supporting their peace formula? Meanwhile little bunker boy Vlad has had to prostrate himself in front of North Koreas Pop and Fresh. Is that why all the Kremlin sh*te spewers such as yourself are suddenly so riled up and scuttering up the thread?
Fantastic contributions to the thread. Summed up as basically Russia is bigger than Ukraine so the world should have bent over for Putin. You're entitled to your views but given the lack of any real substance to them don't be shocked by posters being dismissive.
Yeah, it seems crass to mention it given the human toll/ suffering, but the ecological devastation caused, even just for Ukraine's own habitats, is depressing. Its the same with every war, but this is all in the midst of having reached global environmental crisis point. Another thank you card to write to Putin.
So instead of engaging with the points, you just respond like this? It's not exactly demonstrating that you can actually argue this alternative solution. Letting Russia invade Ukraine would have resulted in more genocide and further expansion. It would have been far more destabilising effect globally.
