Please use this thread to continue discussing the war in Ukraine.
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Original thread:
I think a lot depends on Ukrainian aims and ambitions. They've taken large losses and extensive damage. The eastern parts of their state are important to them. In for a penny, in for a pound. With support from Europe and USA and others, they can minimise their own losses, wage a war of attrition on the Russian military resources inc strikes across the border. Then seize the day when the opportunity eventually arises. Russian economy is on a war footing but it still has to function as a state and look after the basic needs of it's proletariat. Can they keep it up?
On the other hand, Ukraine might settle for some present day 'borders' on condition of guaranteed access to the EU and NATO with large scale investments from the West to rebuild and arm etc.
Whatever about Crimea, I'd wonder if they'd settle for the 2014 borders with the breakaway region. And have the right to join the EU and NATO
”Putin gave Kim a new Aurus vehicle and a tea set”
https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20240619010100315?section=national/diplomacy
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c899nwx8821o Kim dear Kim, be careful mate!
The body language
About the only way this war was avoidable is if Kiev remained like Belarus with a Kremlin puppet at the helm. That's the "bad politics" at play. The US' foreign policy is regularly cúntish. I certainly don't consider them angels. I protested their wars on Iraq and Afghanistan, just like I protest this Russian ballsology.
As for the post WW2 score sheet the vast majority of those questionable conflicts were Cold War proxies with the Kremlin. There was a pair of them in it. Post the collapse of the Soviet Union the US military machine had a hard on looking for somewhere to stick it.
As for regime change by nefarious US groups like the CIA that Russia blames; if you look at their actual historical record, not Hollywood or Kremlin spin, they were remarkably crap at it. Indeed if one looks to nations in South America the Russians appeared to be far better at it. Though the reality is they weren't either. They happened to support already winning sides almost by mistake. Same for the Americans. The US put their might into trying to turn Cuba with clandestine ops and even an invasion of sorts over many decades and failed miserably. Where they "won" they did it by bankrolling already powerful right wingers in militaries and even then that didn't always go to plan and in the case of Panama required them to send in the troops when "their man" went rogue.
Yet we're expected to believe that orgs like the CIA were able to cause a revolution in Ukraine, and sustain that revolution over nearly a decade, through internationally observed elections that even the Russians didn't question and different parliaments and presidents? Pull the other one. The far more likely reality is a large enough chunk of Ukrainians wanted more autonomy from Moscow and more connections with the EU/West and heavy handed ballsology by the existing Russian backed oligarchy tipped over into revolt. Of course by invading Ukraine, that Putin et al say doesn't really exist, they only went and forged a nation. For all Putin's nods to his version of history, it might have served the muppet better to actually read history and the history of how nations and nationhoods are formed. Not least our own.
Different thread alright but I remember being in NY on a j1 around 89 and homelessness was chronic, people sleeping under cardboard around wall street etc.. the Bronx looked it had been bombed.
It cleaned up in the following decade but until the whole Sex and the City franchise NY was a place you only commuted to.
In the old Soviet days they'd use such footage to justify their system.
Can you explain what the US \ The West should have done then, how this would have been done in such as way that Russia would not react, and that Ukraine's sovereignty and independence could have been guaranteed and protected from Russian threats and domination?
Otherwise, we can assume this is just kneejerk anti-US student politics without foundation or merit.
More Patriots!
And before the usually crowd say 'what use are patriot systems if they don't have missiles'
It would be nice to start seeing more Russian planes being shot down, this time over Russia!
https://united24media.com/latest-news/us-prioritizes-sending-patriot-missiles-to-ukraine-over-switzerland-813
You do know that the US is Vietnam's largest export market and second largest trading partner? Indeed Vietnam has become America's ninth biggest trading partner and that trend is going up year on year. There's little your "President Putin" can offer them beyond firesale price oil.
On top of the true blue bots, a load of old/middle aged western Marxist types have been rowing in behind putin. He covers a couple of bases and triggers for them; hatred for the US as a great satan and a hankering for the failed Soviet/Socialist notions that they luckily never had to live under. You know the type; 70's students with Army Bargains army jackets, PLO scarves and that pic of Guevara on the wall of their bedsit in an unironic way. There can be some overlap with general peaceniks too. The Chomsky's of the world. Clare Daly would be poster girl for the type. The Kremlin used Western fringes like them back in Cold War days(a load of their orgs died right after the Wall fell. Funny that…) and they're happy to get them on board in Cold War 2, along with not in my day conservatives who don't understand what's happening, MAGA, conspiracy nuts and just asking questions types.
Vietnam's position on Russia is similar to that of China or Hungary.
They are happy to spout pro-Russian platitudes but when it comes down to cold, hard cash, their strategic interests are aligned with the USA (and EU).
North Korea, Syria or Iran don't have that option so we can say they are the only true allies of Russia. And the potato farmer in Minsk of course. What a club to be in!
Absolute horseshit
What’s interesting is how South Korea and Japan respond to North Korean Russian fling
They must be scratching their heads and not believing their luck that they now have an opportunity to drain both North Korea and Russia of weapons by redirecting a tiny portion of their industrial complex (which in case of S Korea never went on peace footing) to helping Ukraine
South Korea + Japan alone have an economy that’s 3-4x of Russia+N Korea
The 'not in my day conservatives' (great moniker 😂) are the worst/ potentially most dangerous. They span every social/ economic strata, including people who would not be outwardly left or right wing, but would privately sympathise with left or right wing narratives.
Yes, but you will notice that these parts of Moscow you mention, are never seen in these walk-around type vid's, Yes, Putins war is sucking every available ruble out if the economy, leaving very little even for basic maintenance, not even a lick of paint, The 7 Sisters being a prime example.
Hopefully South Korea lifts their ban.
I mean Ukraine should have a $50 billion loan by the end of the year. As long as there's no restrictions, it would be nice for them to be able to purchase what ever weapons they believe will help them, rather than waiting on aid.
https://mil.in.ua/en/news/south-korea-to-reconsider-ban-on-weapons-sales-to-ukraine/
"North Korea, Syria or Iran don't have that option so we can say they are the only true allies of Russia"
Are you forgetting Trump and the flies buzzing round his mound of shite?
I don’t remember which podcast in last few days, maybe Telegraphs Ukraine the Latest but one of the commentators made observation that this North Korea thing is going to make a good few people in China uncomfortable as their relationship with North is “complicated” and they don’t like having a mad nuclear armed state on border, tis bad for “harmony” and “stability”, hence why China joined in so many sanctions too
Is that one reason Putin did it?(whatever it is he actually did)
An ally against China?
Leave Michael D out of this, he is now our president
I'd say at this stage Putin will go where ever he can for aid. They're sending lads to the front now on scramblers and desert cross vehicles (golf buggies with motor engines) so it could be a case of asking former soviet allies for any extra bit of gear.
I don't know about N Korea but the Soviets played the Vietnamese off China after the Sino-Soviet war.
I think China were OK with a war in Europe, but not so keen an a military arms build-up in their backyard.
Priority number one is to avoid a war or State collapse in NK, as they fear a stream of refugees. War becomes more likely with an emboldened NK.
This could be another blunder by Putin. Although desperate men tend not to think straight.
I wasn't referring to individuals. Even with Trump as President (God forbid), the USA would never be formally aligned with Russia.
The USA was formally aligned with Russia in the aftermath of 9/11. In the run up to the invasion of Iraq Putin was in the US camp while China was in the French camp.
You are confusing tactical cooperation (against the Taliban and Al Quaeda) with full strategic partnership. Not the same thing at all.
BREAKING: The U.S. "has made the difficult but necessary decision to reprioritize near-term planned deliveries of foreign military sales" to other countries of Patriot and NASAM missiles to go to Ukraine instead, per John Kirby
From Lara Seligman on X
I was referring to Trump's "Republican" party and not formal alliances (yet).
As we are ,he is their ally but will not admit it as it might lose him the election.
Just the odd nod and a wink so far.
I think if he gets in he will want to carve up Europe btw him and his mates.
Wouldn't be unprecedented .
Yes.sure. But you are talking about the best parts of Moscow and St, Petersburg, where you have both, Travel the republics, and in these cities there's not much "Good"to balance out the bad parts.In other words, Moscow and St Petersburg are the best that Russia has to offer.
The fact that in any discussions Russia engages in about peace or talk's or treatys' etc, top of the list of preconditions before talks can even begin is the " all sanctions must be lifted". For sure, Russia is feeling full effects of them, despite Putins best efforts to persuade the world that they are not having any effect
Yes making a video of supermarkets is such a normal thing for tourists to do and yet another normal day for putin's forces in Ukraine yesterday:
I'm sure you would say it looks like putin can cope with these losses without it being any sort of problem for his mighty empire and time is running out for Ukraine to make concessions….
