Please use this thread to continue discussing the war in Ukraine.
All mod instructions from the previous thread remain in force here
Original thread:
Bad analogy. Tigers work solely off instinct, whereas humans can reason.
Putin may look at Ukraine as essentially a province of Russia that he can use the military on if it's trying to 'secede', but this view certainly would not be reflected in international law.
That analogy makes no rational sense. I think this is what you meant:
If I let my tiger loose in your house and you kill it while it attempts to eat you, you're at fault for defending yourself.
Everything Putin does damages Russia
Last response. If you stick your arm into the tigers cage and it's bitten off is the tiger solely responsible?
That's how I look at it mostly.
I'm just expressing my opinion of your posts. I hope you've had all your questions answered by now? So, when is Putin calling an end to the bloodshed he is solely responsible for?
There is also no law against having an opinion about russian shills who vomit up the same playbook time after time and quickly embarrass themselves.
It seems you are casting aspersin on my character. I don't know why. AFAIK, there is no law against having an opinion in Ireland and I'm Irish.
Leipzig was ex East Germany, and is still largely infested by russian scum today, just like Swords in Ireland. So no surprises there.
”looking at it dispassionately”
Ok let’s do that
Russian oligarchs could have continued to light cigars with 100$ bills while having the best whiskey and hookers while their wifes and kids were sent on education/shopping trips out of Russia, while buying up wine growing villas in Italy and growing the yacht fleet
with the middle class continuing to visit Europe and ooh and aah about the culture and the normality of the place and availability of running water and toilets and washing machines
And the lower class continued to have jobs extracting gas and other natural resources in backarse of Siberia for export to Europe
And then Covid happened and Putin got brainwashed by the CIA to destroy Russia by starting a war they simply can not win (no matter how much they shift the goals of victory aims) with half a million dead, prisoners released and running amuck in the population, taxes going up, inflation at 80%, access to civilised world and products restricted or available only via dodgy black markets, all so the largest country in world gets a few hundred more square kilometres full of people who **** hate them
And now that CIA plant called Putin has turned the once mighty Russia into a colony of China
No future, no hope, just more Russian grade misery and bleakness
just overlooking the Russian elites who've sent circa half a million to their death, too.
Interesting you avoided the Russian genocide bit. Well not really.
As regards bucha, you are writing as I am defending what happened there which I am not.
You're also not coming out and saying Russia did it, are you? Indeed you're pretty transparently avoiding it with weaselly maneuvering.
I think you got confused, I gave an OSCE link which showed the ceasefire violations in Donetsk prior to the war. Here it is again.
Violations on both sides and more to the point one casualty, a 60 odd year old woman who caught some shrapnel injuries, with details of her testimony, ambulance ride and treatment. How many are dead since Putin's invasion? How many died in that first week, month, year? How many died just yesterday? Because of the sheer scale of this madness few injuries and deaths are so well documented as that woman's, the vast majority anonymous save to their families. Madness that lays directly at the feet of those in the Kremlin.
It seems you want to support Ukraine's elite as they funnel more men to their deaths in a fight against an enemy they cannot beat.
Annnnd we have another bingo! moment, with yet another Kremlin spin line; "Ukraine's elites"© killing all those Ukrainians. Oh and they can't beat Mother Russia anyway. It's almost like they have a copypasta list of talking points.
I'll bet you won't talk about Russia's elites who've robbed they country and their people blind, whose sons and daughters are more likely to be found on the front row of Paris fashion week than on the frontlines of Ukraine, who have supported the near mafia czarist state and it's imperialism throughout.
Sooner or later what's left of the moth eaten veil falls away.
smoke and mirrors smoke and mirrors - "It seems you want to support Ukraine's elite as they funnel more men to their deaths in a fight against an enemy they cannot beat" - smoke and mirrors smoke and mirrors
What a strange - utterly bizarre - angle to take for someone 'just looking for information' and who honestly just wants peace and love.
The irony of someone pointing to 'elites' within Ukraine, in the context of a war between two nations where the other nation is one built exclusively on elites subjugating the proles and denying them any meaningful suite of civil liberties.
I think we can all see through your smoke and mirrors to who is really wanting to support elites here.
Just responding as others on this thread and assuming I'm on your ignore list.
Who f***ing cares what Russia accuse Ukraine of?
Anyone looking for a diplomatic end to the war would likely care.
https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine/512842
I know a friend who was very emotional on the topic with family in Ukraine but I think if you want the best for Ukraine, it's worth looking at it dispassionately.
I probably feel like you do about the Russians with respect to the Israelis but I am favour of a ceasefire not arming Hamas with patriot missiles or whatever. If anyone needs help it's the Palestinians.
Anyway, hope that answers your questions even though you have me on ignore 🫣
His Channel is https://www.youtube.com/%40TheChieftainsHatch I beleive.
Nate
I thought the latest round of military support was going to strengthen Ukraine but Zelensky is saying it’s still not enough- this doesn’t bode well for gaining additional volunteers to join the army.
If/when there’s a peace agreement, I don’t think those who hid or escaped conscription will be treated well by their fellow citizens- but in order to win over a fresh wave of sign ups, Zelensky may have to win over hearts and minds in a different way- certainly showing how guaranteed ongoing military aid and support from the west would be a good start
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o
Everyone who quotes Stepan Bandera as solely Nazi collaborator is purely Russian drivel and overlooks the part where he was actually sent to a concentration camp by the Nazi's for most of the second half of WW2.
Ukraine has a national identity history even more complex than the Irish/British 800 years complexities.
It also includes more than just 2 nations, which anyone looking from a western perspective seems to grab onto…
What Bandera and his party were trying to achieve at the time was an independent Ukraine… This included fighting Polish and Hungarians, along with Soviets (but also siding with them at one point). When WW2 broke out, it was in their interest of achieving an independent Ukraine to initially side with the Soviets to drive out Hungarians and Polish…. When the Soviets wanted to absorb Ukraine, it became Ukraine's interest to side with the Nazi's (which also solved their Polish/Hungarian issue also).
I don't agree with everything Bandera did, but to just blanket him as a Nazi is just plainly false.
I find it hard to believe anything you post based on your persistent refusal to engage any direct questions.
For anyone new to this thread - this posters modus operandi is identical to countless others over the past couple of years… pop into the thread, politely explain your lack of knowledge, that you're just hear looking for information, firmly push back on any suggestion that Russia is the bad guy in this war, refuse to answer any direct questions, indulge in smoke and mirrors by posting random links suggesting bad things about Ukraine, raise a allegations from a well-worn playbook of Russian-favourable stories, and get snarky when the holes in those links/ allegations are raised.
Smoke and mirrors. "Forget about the illegal invasion, kidnapping of children and targeting of civilians, civilian infrastructure and energy facilities… look at these allegations that Ukraine is corrupt and has nazis fighting in its armed forces and was bombing its own people in Donbas".
If someone can't have a straightforward debate - and sure enough the poster will be along shortly to say he is answering questions but won't be able to show where - I don't think they're worth wasting any time engaging with and you'd have to question their motives.
Rod Stewart was booed during a concert in Leipzig Germany when he showed support for Ukraine.
"I believe that Putin is fighting exclusively for himself. He realizes that he is isolated. He is not completely isolated, unfortunately, there are people who are still balancing, despite all the terrorism he has brought, and not only to our country. There are many countries in the world. Africa and Syria. But there are people who are balancing, unfortunately. In my opinion, he is fighting exclusively for himself. How can he overcome the isolation that he has now? He is no longer a player for many countries. By the way, he is no longer a player for China either. I am sure of this. They all understand that he will end up either respecting international law or he will do some radical things that will lead to his isolation. I think he thinks about the bipolarity of the world. He is trying to divide it in this way, because it is impossible for him to get out of isolation. So he has to do everything he can to get someone to join him. Our task is to make sure that his isolation is understood by his society, so that he has pressure inside the country. Then there is an opportunity to end the war"
Great analysis of Putin by zelensky, he cannot escape isolation therefore he needs to bring others with him
What’s the channel name? Thanks
Hope it’s ok to ask and not break any rules here
Edit: mass Russian surrenders
You went from being on the fence to outright justifying the invasion through any excuse you can. Facts, Russia are committing genocide after their illegal invasion of Ukraine.
I did a google on Putin's genocide blunder but couldn't find anything.
https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1636805712742318091
Here you go. Heres Lvova Belova(also a wanted criminal) and Putin in a snippet talking about it. There's tons more links I can provide (like a full interview with Belova where she gives detail about her actions). Be at peace, the ICC aren't going to simply add a representative of a whole country to their list without overwhelming evidence.
Here's a link to the official documentation about genocide:
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf
Take note of Article 2(e):
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
See it's all very simple? No need for complications or both sides-ing anything. And unfortunately for you it gets even simpler than that. Because the Russian foreign affairs spokesperson didn't even deny it. The simply said they're not signatories to the Rome statute so it doesn't apply to them:
https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1636762843554144257
So it appears, they both accuse each other of genocide or genoicdal behaviour.
Who f***ing cares what Russia accuse Ukraine of? They have another very simple fact to content with.
Ukraine were not in control of Bucha at the time it occurred. Here:
https://deepstatemap.live/en?#10/50.7125/30.7494
Look at Bucha on the outskirts of Kiev and wind the time back to March 2022. See how Russia controlled the area? So unless you're suggesting that it's somehow plausible or likely that Ukraine would venture into Russian controlled Ukrainian territory to massacre their own people on the doorsteps of Kiev…… To what? Have something in their back pocket to blame Russia for? As though they needed that. Then you're engaging in brain falling out of head level conspiracy here.
Make no mistake, if you were lauding Russia, I'd be pushing back against that too.
Doubt.
Anyway, I hope that answers your questions and gives you some context. You may read my previous reply now and hopefully your attitude, which I found a bit forceful, will improve a little.
It answers nothing except confirming my already held suspicions about you. Rest assured you'll be joining my ignore list from now on. So you don't have to worry about my tone stifling your tender sensibilities. Bye.
2 more and I have Bingo
Who do you define as "they"?
As there is only one country sending people to die, which would put you firmly on the Ukraine/NATO side.
(Also amazing how much research you've pulled out given your previous JAQ'ing off stances).
No one cares at this stage.
We all know the truth.
Impressive how Ukraine improved given the reported corruption e.g.
https://time.com/6249941/ukraine-corruption-resignation-zelensky-russia/ but still, at 103rd and a score of 36, it's not great.
2014 - 2016 was the worst time but the OSCE reports prior to the war showed the increase in ceasefire violations
I have no primary experience but it would be great if a reputable source like the Irish Times went through the reports and explained what happened.
Anyway. It's late. Probably best staying away from this conversation. I'm not committed to either the Ukraine/ NATO or Russia side. Hopefully they'll stop sending people to die in this stupid war.
Live from the curragh?
Your question was as follows:
In what way is it similar?
I answered your question and you refused to read the answer and now are assuming the role of an interrogator? Anyway…
In answer to your questions.
I found this speech:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/world/europe/putin-ukraine-speech.html
The purpose of this operation is to protect people who, for eight years now, have been facing humiliation and genocide perpetrated by the Kyiv regime.
He accused Ukraine of genocide.
On Bucha
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/hallmarks-genocide-russian-crimes-across-ukraine-ukrainian-prosecutor-says-2024-04-02/
Ukraine's top prosecutor said on Tuesday that Russian crimes across occupied Ukrainian territories, including the Bucha massacres, show a pattern of genocidal behaviour that should be tried domestically and ultimately by the International Criminal Court.
Ukraine's top prosecutor accused Russia of genocidal behaviour.
I'm not seeing either side as angelic. You seem to hold Ukraine in great regard and certainly on transparency international they score higher than russia.
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwmrqzBhAoEiwAXVpgoj1Sq9gEzLcBElKoU-IaxoYgGpJXhah0d-0EFQALeaftt4pEBMKmjxoCicwQAvD_BwE
But neither country scores high.
The Guardian described the Ukraine far right problem back in 2014
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/azov-far-right-fighters-ukraine-neo-nazis
That doesn't get talked about much anymore. The Israeli's weren't happy about it.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/kiev-renames-major-street-to-honor-russian-nazi-collaborator/
True, but that's ok. The point of the peace summit, as far as I understand, was to consolidate the position of countries that already support Ukraine. This is important, because before the consolidated agreement on what the peace should look like, Russia could play on the difference in opinions between countries.
Go watch the video I put out today instead, then :)
