Please use this thread to continue discussing the war in Ukraine.
All mod instructions from the previous thread remain in force here
Original thread:
Actually here's a question you ruZZian sympathizers need to answer. What has putin's ruZZia created or even embellished over the last two decades that has enhanced or emboldened humanity? I'm reading a vey inciteful book at the minute, 'In Search of Excellence' which offers insights into the practices and strategies employed by America's most successful companies. A quote from the book is from one of Intel's founders, 'Go and create something wonderful'…. does putin's ruZZia even have the capacity?
I'm not reading a single syllable of that guff since you avoided my very directed questions. Quite rude of you.
Ill ask again in case you missed it. And I wont be replying to you again until you answer.
The answer should cost you at most 6 characters and as little as 4. So it shouldn't be very hard. Thanks
The Russian military could partially collapse or there could be an internal military crisis (not impossible considering what happened with Prigozhin), economic factors (the war is extremely expensive for Russia), domestic factors, political factors. There are things that could potentially force Putin into a real negotiation (likely brokered by a third party e.g. Turkey or China). Ukraine doesn't necessarily have to physically recapture every square centimeter, pressure is incredibly important, that includes the pressure domestically in Russia of a perpetual conflict that is sapping a lot from them.
Conversely Ukraine could get into trouble, but the allies seem to be showing increasing resolve rather than lacking (after the lull) and that is seriously denting Putin's long-term "wait them out" strategy.
Personally I would expect this war to end at the table, but with a real negotiation via back channels and third parties. When and how that happens is anyone's guess
Oh look, the local ruZZian sympathizer is back. Your pool of friends seems to have depleted very recently, aka Wallace and Daly.
Pity Putin didn't give Russians the choice to vote for or against invading Ukraine, isn't it? Luna84. Oh, despite what the Kremlin factory of lies is telling you, President Zelenski is still the lawful President of Ukraine, and will remain so until the end of the war, because under the Ukrainian constitution, there cannot be any referendums or Presidential elections during war time. Next time you are posting, try to verify your clownish statements Luna84…
The rubles you’re being paid for this nonsense won’t even buy you toilet roll very soon.
Like a deck of cards, it’s coming and Putin knows it.
In what way is it similar?
It's similar as in that it's complicated. Many western commentators such as mearsheimer claim that the maiden revolution was a coup.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/24483306
On the other extreme people claim that Ukraine which was regarded as the most corrupt country in Europe is full of modern day Saints.
So, I would say it's complicated and NATO involvement in Ukraine spooked the Russian's and things got a lot worse prior to the war with all the ceasefire violations.
Putin's offer is humiliating for Ukraine but so was the Brits offer to Ireland. I think they should probably take the offer while they still have Ukrainian people left alive, declare neutrality and in a hundred years time they could start talking about reunification, like here.
Anyway, I suspect everyone here has heard all the discussion points and made up their minds. I'm for ceasefire and human rights.
So if I start a fight by punching someone in the face, I can tell the guards I was calling for peace from the very beginning but the other guy kept fighting.
There's a certain kind of peace to be achieved in the complete slaughter of all your enemies, and it's a peace that's probably agreeable in Putin's mind.
Its not a bit depressing the world is rallying around Ukraine while the russian war machine is being obliterated forever. Russia will collapse eventually and Putin will be dragged into the streets like Gaddafi.
Shouting "peace" while actively attacking someone is not "calling for peace".
also clownski isn't even the head of state anymore
Care to elaborate?
Putin's Russia is a lover of peace in the same way that Mafiosi in movies are,
"Real fine establishment you got here. Listen - - me and my associate were thinkin' you'd do a lot better if you were to maybe offer us 50 percent of the profit dis place is makin' you right now. We're nice guys. We don't want no trouble. Be a real shame if anything bad was to happen here, like a sudden fire or you fallin' down a few flights of stairs and some heavy objects landin' on your head."
If Russia wanted peace from the beginning, then maybe they shouldn't have invaded Ukraine? In this way, Russia would have had peace and Ukraine would have had peace. Sounds mutually beneficial to me.
well now, let me see now… this might take me some considerable length of time, please don't want for me.
The US at least is already funding anti-china propaganda, I read today about one quite nasty operation ran by the Trump regime to discredit the Chinese COVID vaccine in the Philippines.. of course the side effect was most likely dead Filipinos.. it was at least eventually stopped once Biden got into power
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-covid-propaganda/
Ah yes .Russia were the good guys and we never realized.
War is peace.I must have forgotten.
Yes calling for peace whilst invading a sovereign nation and committing war crimes. That would be a great peace alright, I’m sure the survivors of Bucha would agree with you.
I keep flip flopping over any possible end to this war ,can't see how either side will concede anything and can't see an end to it either as Putin despite all the wishful thinking that he will come a cropper just looks to have enough friends to help him carry on the way it is .The chances of Russia being completely defeated and driven out just don't appear likely at this stage .Of course the other side is Ukraine must win ,it's just depressing thinking about it .
Stream of meeting in Switzerland
https://player.streaminghouse.ch/Player/Play/57056c99-4a0c-4807-a6f9-b06bf3eba639
So we should be trying to break through the wall of internet information (censorship) around China exactly as if we were already at war with them?
We should be funding anti CPC government groups living in the West and withholding visas for any one on the CCP page?
So long as it is productive.
Crack down on Beijing stooges?(when the time comes)
Let other countries choose a side?
because the Kharkiv offensive went swimmingly well /s
Hey found your post
Ukraine has officially down this now
He also is setting the scene for the main Russian offensive, he tried the peace route etc etc. Lot of ot for domestic consumption and also for his numerous friends across Asia and Africa.
General Patton's quote always gets taken out of context too (happy to be corrected, you know far much more than me on military matters)
We may have been fighting the wrong enemy (Germany) all along. But while we're here (on the Soviet border), we should go after the bastards now, 'cause we're gonna have to fight 'em eventually.
Where the above is usually the given context, where others have suggested it was the Jews, along with other versions of the quote.
Yes. China is actively working, not just to subjugate its own population, but to undermine the very idea of Western democracy.
If you believe in democracy, then China is your enemy.
Someone recently said, might have been a quote, about how war was awful and the only thing worse was losing one.
Seems in character.
is he trying to give the impression that he is putting it forward from a position of strength - I’d that the opposite could be the case.
To be kind to Putin , I’d say that he is trying to be the Devil’s advocate ,. He is trying to muddy the waters.
The timing of it is of interest - on the eve of the meeting in Switzerland. If the proposal came from any other nation , one would be looking at it one way but when the proposer is from Russia one would have to look at it from a totally different angle
He is basically trying to mess with the heads of those in Switzerland on a NON issue Ie it is not a peace proposal , it is ‘ I want to MESS WITH YOUR HEADS PROPOSAL’
Eisenhower's speech in which he warns about the potential negative influence of the miltary-industrial complex is commonly cited on the Net, usually by people who are against the increase in arms manufacturing, be it for pacifist or "the money would be better spent elsewhere" concerns. However, very few people seem to cite the fact that the purpose of his speaking was to observe the necessity of having a miltary industrial complex in the first place even with the ancillary risks and costs. The first part of the speech has been forgotten about, the second has almost been used as a basis for domestic government policy since the 90s.
Yes ,that seems like a good way to view it.
What are the dynamics of support for Ukraine at the moment?
Is it losing ground in public opinion in the West(as opposed to support among the political groupings)?
Oops,somebody smoking again?
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