Please use this thread to continue discussing the war in Ukraine.
All mod instructions from the previous thread remain in force here
Original thread:
Ok so. You might understand then that your position is probably not one that resonates with the majority of Ukranians, for whom this is an existential battle. Nor indeed with Russians who will keep obediently lining up for the meat grinder on the say so of their dictator. You do realise that in Russia, your calls to end the war immediately would likely land you in prison and then the front line?
Translation, not willing to answer some pretty reasonable questions so will come back in a week or two and rinse and repeat.
Eh, no - I got that hypothetical situation out of your head, or more specifically your post #504:
This is war over resources it was clear from the start when 2 of the most rich counties in Ukraine tried to jump ship and Ukraine did not want them to leave. Russians happily supported that move. Result of that conflict at this moment is that Ukraine lost another 2 counties and if you know anything about Ukraine you would know that first 2 lost territories are the most valuable in terms of resources and other 2 are where most of the grains are produced.
Sure, there was vigorous debate in the Donbas region as to whether or not they should remain part of Ukraine, but they did not jump ship nor was there any movement to join Russia until that Russian "support" arrived in the form of paramilitary agitators with their own (or rather Putin's) agenda.
As my son's Ukrainian flat mate said several years ago, the situation in the Donbas was like Northern Ireland on steroids, but it could have been handled within Ukraine through conventional heated negotiations - exactly like we see and have seen in respect of Catalonia and the Basque region … and Northern Ireland.
But no, Putin decided that he was going to impose his own "solution" on someone else's problem, sent his little green men into Crimea and the Donbass, and as we're all too well aware now, then decided to embark on his "Special Military Operation" because … reasons. And all your posts indicate that you're quite happy with that, because some people in Donetsk and Luhansk expressed their discontent with the government in Kyiv ten years ago.
It's the stuff like comparing conquest and stealing land and resouces to a business transaction (like McDonalds growing by m&a apparently), trying to spin it like Russia's leadership are not acting abnormally here, that also makes you sound pro Russia.
I just know you would not be talking about this so glibly if "Uncle Sam" (you don't like them!) were acting the global pirate, sending US military out after booty and seeking to add a new state to the Union. You'd be laying into them on here (rightly so).
Putting blame on Ukraine/Ukrainians for choosing to stand and fight vs accepting a "hostile takeover", also blaming others for supporting them with weapons, saying you don't care what happens, posting negativity/cynicism/criticism of Ukraine and its allies, claiming that once war ends (no matter how it happens) it is for the best as there will be "peace" (despite evidence to the contrary), all of it seems pro Russia. If it walks like a duck etc.
You are also normalising revanchism/irredentism in some posts, going on about idea of Romania annexing Moldova + other disputes around Europe (Catelonian independence etc). It seems to be to try and make it apppear as if Russia isn't really acting out of the ordinary, and this kind of thing is rife all over Europe, par for the course. Not true.
Discussing border/sovereignty/territorial changes you wish to see happen in future, or even working for them entirely peacefully and through political means is one thing. Countries' leaders making claims to other people's lands, issuing threats against them if they don't acquiesece and then using acts of terrorism or warfare to redraw borders the way they want them to be is quite another and it is not normal. It is sick behaviour we'd all hoped was gone from Europe in 21C.
Russia and Israel…the new axis of evil.
Yours is a very good description in light of latest Bild article
They're not really an axis, more like they are competing with each other to be the biggest, most complete and utter jockstains imagineable.
I think wanting peace and soon is admirable, I have little time for those who would put geopolitics first or enjoy the fighting, but the sad fact is that the killing will only stop once the Ukraine pushes Russia completely out of its territory. We already know from the likes of Chechnya what a Russian "peace" looks like and it's not pleasant for the people who have to suffer under it. The Ukraine must win and we must support them for as long as they wish.
Remember when Russians were quite deep in Ukraine and as soon as negotiation started in Turkey whey withdrew?
Between this and your invented claim that two regions "tried to jump ship", the problem might just be that your memory isn't very good.
Russia withdrew because their advance stalled and was incredibly exposed. The talks collapsed when it became clear Russia's demands were absurdly unacceptable and they weren't taking it seriously and the massacre in Bucha was found. The "separatist movement" in the Donbas both had no formal authority (the last vote in the region was pro independence after all) and was a Russian invasion in disguise from the get go anyway.
Not unexpected really. Putin has Georgia by the b*lls where he took pretty much 20% of it or more back in 2008. Georgia dont really have a military to size up against RA and shur a huge amount of Russians fled into Georgia during early stages of the "Special Operation". Putin and FSB are fully behind the forceable arm twisting of the Georgian parliament on this. Expect further Russian incursion into Georgia similar to Ukraine with the Little Green Men thing. Georgia is now sucked into the federation pretty much. Its a pity really because I think at the start georgian dream were very pro EU and NATO? So something happened recently and all I can think of is Putin/FSB infiltration and threats
Looks like Georgia is about to become a Russian proxy / puppet State
A note on Donbas independence re. the recent conversation (reposted for those who missed first time)-
So Georgia on its way to becoming Belarus V2.0
The telling moment for Georgia isn't now - the bill was always going to pass. The telling moment is the upcoming elections.
Nope. They withdrew because in their hubris thinking it would be over quickly in the face of Russia Unleashed, their mighty military machine's 40k plus flying column forgot about simple things like petrol and food. And don't even go down the strewn with Kremlin bullshít road of Johnson's telling Ukraine to fight on. Those Turkey talks went on for weeks after he left. At the time Russia claimed it was a tactical feint, but you've forgotten that. Oh and they also "withdrew" from Forever Russian™ Kharkiv and Kherson, AKA legged it in the face of mismanagement and general fcukups, long after any negotiations.
Parliamentary elections are scheduled to be held in Georgia on 26 October 2024.
Id say the Russian election interference in this election will be off the scale ..
Not really but if that's what you choose to read into it feel free
And with respect to the Georgian Election 26 Oct 2024 .. this take:
Yes, this is suspicious and quite strange that most members of Georgian parliament voted for this undemocratic law, disregarding popular protests. How are they going to explain this decision to their voters in the next election?
Very very nice touch indeed ..
Zelensky knows that the cause of Israel and Ukraine are one that the cause of Russia, Iran and Palestine are one.
Neither side really hides that, though some in the West pretend otherwise, for many reasons.
The cause of Palestine and the cause of Hamas are directly linked however.
You can support Palestine and the Palestinian people, but not support Hamas.
He is talking about Hamas, not the Palestinians as a whole. Though I realise you are all too happy to draw no distinction.
His comments were also made on October 9. I expect he might take a more balanced view now.
Hamas is a terrorist organisation.
The Israeli state in its current form is a state terrorist.
A bit like Stalin versus Hitler: there doesn't have to be a good guy in a war, sometimes both are awful.
Remember when Russian heli's and jet's were dropping out of the sky over Belgorod. I knew it was patriot's based off the videos of the missile's hitting them.
It's nothing short of disgraceful Russia and Germany giving them an earful. No surprise they actually ran out of air defence missiles after it was threatened.
https://x.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1795449109391782116?t=qk3ODScD3UwlhLzMIaHQEg&s=19
This ( @RoyalCelt Before posting comment with X/Twitter link, change the x in the x dot com part of the link to TWITTER, I think its an issue here at boards that x dot com links dont open / display )
I think a clear education for people would be the venn diagram for COVID deniers and russian tankies.
Nothing you have posted indicates a deep insight into what is happening in Ukraine. Further emphasised by you not caring about what happens.
Belgorod
Quickest route for that is for Russia to leave Ukraine to pre-2014 boarders.
It's actually that simple.
I see France is sending their foreign legion troops to Ukraine.
Probably there for a while now. Others will follow soon.
@patnor1011 is it Kharkiv or Kharkov?
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