Now this is getting really silly.
Things that really, really matter in international rugby:
Things that are primarily entertainment, enjoyable, but are ultimately absolutely inconsequential and pretty meaningless:
I don't know what the aversion is to accepting this, or why we need to talk up test series into something they are not. It makes us look incredibly small time, like the Ireland of old when we used to talk up triple crowns.
Backs
Replacements
The team that SA sent over to Dublin in 2022 which lost by 3 points. Was that defeat soul destroying for them?
Our world ranking is good right now, we want it to stay that way until the draw for the next world cup, so that means we want to win as much as possible up to the end of the November internationals in 2025. Beating the top team nearly 4 points ahead of us, away, would give us a huge points boost.
Only partially. The World Cup is 3 years away and I couldn't give a flip about it. We are b2b 6N champions so what else is there to aim for?
I'm still annoyed we lost the last tour down there, very eager to see us claim that scalp.
I couldn't give a crap about the RWC 3 years away either. Don't get me wrong, we should try win this series. I am not suggesting we send a rotated side, that won't happen. It'll be a strong touring team with maybe a few new faces thrown in.
But ultimately, winning or losing this series is inconsequential, it's nothing more than a feel good moment for the fans. Is it an achievement to crow about? No. Is it something the team will be remembered for? No. Would winning this series take the edge off the WC disappointment? Not even close.
Similarly if we lose, we'll feel bad for a day or two but it means nothing. A series loss here tells us nothing whatsoever. The players will have forgotten about it before they land on the beaches for their summer breaks. I am sure SA will want to win it, and if they do I am sure they'll enjoy it, and within a few days of it being over they'll have totally forgotten about it too.
These test series are nothing more than money making machines for the unions. We go visit them so that they'll come visit us in future. We can enjoy them and simultaneously accept them for what they are. Enjoyment isn't predicated on us pretending like they are a huge deal. That is my point.
Nothing in my posts disagrees with what you note here.
However, rather than looking to enjoy the upcoming test series, certain posters are moaning about a RWC a year ago and stressing out about the impact of decisions now on a RWC 3 years from now.
In my opinion that is a sad mindset to be in.
What is worse is there is zero evidence directly linking that a developmental team would in anyway improve our chances in the RWC, while the real negative impact to seedings is far more likely to hurt in the RWC.
Couldn't give less of a toss about the outcome of these two "test matches". Much rather we used it to bring new guys into the fold (we won't because we never learn). SA will absolutely not be fielding their strongest 23. We'll probably take a full strength squad and win a test or two and then crown ourselves de facto World Champions because we beat the World Cup wimmers. But honestly after so many years of being the laughing stock of World rugby, all any Irish rugby fan should care about is winning a quarter final.
'Nice'
I'll stop at that. If you think a series win in RSA is just nice, you are either very young or naive
For probably the first 100+ years though of Irish rugby history it was inconceivable that we could ever go to these places and be competitive, much less aspire to win.
It's the only major rugby country we haven't won a test series in. We've a great record against them over the past 20 years (we've won 8 of 12 games over that period), but we'd only ever beaten them once in history before 2004.
We're no longer content with smash and grab style wins over bigger countries, we now believe we're capable of winning every game we go into.
All of that matters to me (and I think to a huge amount of Irish rugby fans). I really don't believe these games to be inconsequential.
Will winning a RWC QF be an achievement? not really, but it ticks a box and removes a "you haven't done this yet" barrier.
They are money making machines because people want to see the matches and care about the results. I get your point, but it seems a deeply over-cynical way of looking at it.
"These test series are nothing more than money making machines for the unions."
These test series are money making machines for the unions who then spend that money on the Provinces, Academies & Clubs who supply the players who represent their country at the RWC. RWCs lose Unions money so you have to make it when you can. When Tier 1 nations start sending developement sides the guaranteed fees paid by the hosting Union (whose income from hosting these tours will drop) will decrease, leaving the touring Union less to spend on (yes, you've got it) their next RWC.
Which potentially results in rugby coverage rights being sold, put behind a paywall and removed from free to access TV. If kids don’t have easy access to the games, they stop growing up wanting to be the next Johnny Sexton or POM. Interest in the sport wanes and numbers participating fall. It’s a slippy slope.
The arguments have become somewhat mixed up.
The initial complaint was that a guy who's played 13 provincial games this season should not be going to SA. 13 games is not a lot, this is the whole point of the IRFU player welfare programme, none of them are ever flogged.
OK, then the complaint became that we're not throwing in young guys. Well, Joe McCarthy turned 23 last month and he'll be going, plus whoever replaces Henderson, plus potentially someone else to replace Ryan who must be 50-50 at best to go.
Right across the squad, there will be young guys and less experienced guys travelling to SA.
There really isn't an issue here.
Not disagreeing with the larger point, but can't imagine Ryan is 50-50. He's 100% going.
I meant that he's 50-50 to be fit - I have a sneaking suspicion he's being patched up for the CC final but isn't properly recovered. If he is, he's definitely going to SA.
It'll be 1-1 and nobody will have learnt or proved anything, is my bet.
So be it 🥳
I'm just looking forward to watching the games.
For me its less minutes that the World Cup loss and the consequent collapse in morale/form of the French team and then LAR playing fairly poorly. He looks dejected and sad.
always interesting to note some of the debuts made against Ireland. McCaw, Reid and Dagg come to mind. There are others. Not sure how many debuts we see against them. Carbery, not sure who else.
Julian saveau springs to mind... The fecker
Ruddock, though that was hardly planned.
To be fair, when all those players made their debut we simply weren't as good and had still never beaten the ABs so they were well within their rights to not consider us much of a threat! The way the tours work they generally don't have a tier 2 test in that window to use for debuts.
They gave a few in the series in 22. Fakatava, Sowakulu and RTS spring to mind. We didn't give any.
but we brought a cast of thousands for the Māori games and learned a lot more about more players than we would have from a couple of test cameos.
So the evidence for this latest stick to beat Ireland is one game we played against SA while EDDIE O’SULLIVAN s was in charge?
Irrefutable
Aaron Mauger made his debut the same day as Richie McCaw.
Aaron Cruden, Scott Barrett and Beauden Barrett all made debuts against us too.
Rhys didn't actually make his debut vs the All Blacks - he made it against Australia
Poor old Ronan Loughney and Declan Fitzpatrick both made debuts during the 2012 tour (Loughney never made another appearance). Simon Zebo also made his debut during that 2012 tour.
Going further back some other notable names to have debuted against the All Blacks are: Isaac Boss (2006), Rory Best (2005), Leo Cullen (2002) and Malcolm O'Kelly (1997).
not too shabby. That 2012 tour for me was the nadir and the promise of Irish rugby. We should have won the second tes. I felt we were robbed of a late penalty, then the following week was the charge of the Light Brigade.
Julian Savea, Rettallick and Aaron Smith all debuted on the 2012 tour I think. Savea got a hat trick on debut. I remember chatting with my barber in Ranelagh a couple of days before the match. He was pretty confident of Ireland getting their first win on the tour. I was telling him how good Savea was. Obviously the next time I went for a haircut, I was hailed as a rugby genius 😂
Tony O'Reilly died, he was capped for Ireland at 18. A former Lion too.
RIP
Irish Times reports that an Emerging Ireland tour to SA is being planned for September
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