Enjoy!!
Old thread here......
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057962937/mayo-gaa-discussion-part-4#latest
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Man Vs ManUre until 9/05/23
Names I've seen mentioned that I do not want anywhere near the Mayo job:
Names I've seen mentioned on this thread that I wouldn't have a problem with being the next Mayo manager:
You know there's always going to be a wildcard or two, there always is.
Whether McStay goes or stumbles on for another year (like Horan in 2022), it's clear from what I'm hearing from people across the county that the support for him is evaporating and without Sam (which isn't going to happen) and/or a bad beating in the group/qualifiers that once the conversation even starts, he's a dead man walking…..
Not sure if you tune into Mayo football podcasts. The Ah Ref one has a chat with Paul Fitzpatrick of the Anglo Celt ahead of the game.
Agreed that they should be given the third year. Would advocate a new face in the team though to focus on attacking strategy.
If in future we are looking externally for a manager we should not just go for a big name with limited track record however. Assuming there are no proven all Ireland winning coaches available we need to go after someone with a demonstrated track record of developing a team
Youre spot on!
I missed that,I'm still hoping for Hyde park aswell though
I already mentioned him as a possible number 2 to McEntee. I'd imagine he'd have a lot to offer as a forwards coach and selector. If McEntee wasn't interested and McConville was I'd have no problem with McConville on a list of applicants.
I don't think O'Rourke's CV is that amazing that we'd discount someone like McConville entirely. It's about having a list of realistic candidates as TsuDhoNimh has said. We must have a very high opinion of ourselves when after more than 70 years without Sam Maguire we don't want to even consider multiple medal winning all-star and all ireland winners. We should be flattered that they'd show such an interest.
I asked folks about managers standing out nationally this year (which given the very limited options available Oisín would be among given his big shock result), not specifically for the Mayo job. The question was asked as it was such a short list in my own head, there really aren't many great options jumping out (I've named all I can think of and even a few of those I'd have huge reservations on as managers in general, nevermind as our managers). I wouldn't personally expect Kevin and co to be going anywhere in the short term. Between the league win & only losing a Connacht Final by a point, I'd expect them to be given the 3rd year regardless of how poorly/great (barring an absolute disaster and losing the dressing room - where currently all the noises around the lads are positive) the Group Stages and beyond might pan out. Whether he'll be in a position to take it with public opinion/support probably the bigger question. A lot of anger around, some from warranted football frustrations and a lot of it just general rage that seems worryingly common across all facets of life well beyond sport at the moment.
AI winner as a player is not an automatic predictor of success as a manager.
And winning two counties and and Ulster with Crossmaglen in the 2010's is about the equivalent of winning a Leinster football title with Dublin in the past 15 years. Look at what he is currently doing as an inter county manager and he does not compare favourably with McEntee. Demonstrated ability to develop a team should be the primary competency we look for if we were to go after a new coach. In the absense of a Jim Gavin type figure willing to come on board, if we were to go outside the county, the likes of McEntee and Malachy O'Rourke are who we should be after
The train runs from Westport to Tullamore, or am I missing something? I agree Hyde would be better option though!
Very little apart from the list below. What has any manager done really apart from the very top level candidates, most of whom don't appear to be interested in taking on Mayo?. Don't think we are in position to be turning our noses up at anyone in terms of seeking out interest when the time comes.
Club
As manager
Inter-county
Individual
What has McConville done that warratns conversation? 2 wins in 10 this season. Relegated. -48 points difference in Division 3. A single result against Westmeath contrasted against an otherwise inept season and suddenly he is in discussion for Mayo.
A valid case to be made that he shouldn't yet be with the limited success at club or county… but he absolutely will be and is a runner when the role next comes up. We're all very familiar with the relationships & politics within the County Board decisions. It's far from a meritocracy (I'd much prefer someone with more success under their belt as a manager, but in the current drought of outstanding options I'd have Andy well above many that would be in with a fighting chance). It'll be interesting to watch how Ray Dempsey's year goes as coach for Parke and if he'd throw his hat into the ring again in the future (and after the Limerick ordeal how it would be viewed). John Reilly (Kilmeena) who has been going great in recent years, Damien Mulligan coming out from the backbenches again, pulling Kevin Johnson (Corofin, former Tourlestrane and Ballintubber) back from Galway (you'd imagine he'll be towards the front of the line if/when PJ leaves) or maybe a return to county management for Peter Forde (going shockingly well with Ballinrobe in recent years) the only other names coming to mind. A couple of those I'd never wish to see, but all I'd consider genuine options in the current environment. I'd even consider a surprise return for James a possibility…. all the while crossing my fingers Jim Gavin would like to put Jimmy in his place by showing what true managerial genius looks like by taking us to the AI win, cementing his place as the greatest ever.
The question isn't just limited to potential Mayo candidates, though. Westernview's post just got me thinking about managerial candidates around the country, given the local options don't jump out, and not too many names are jumping out there at the moment either. McConville right up there with the top performers alright, relatively speaking. It'll be interesting to watch his next step(s). You'd expect a shoot-out between himself and McEntee if/when Geezer finally steps aside. I'd be picking Tony every time, but with the right ticket he'd make a real race of it. Raymond Galligan with Cavan probably the other one that's punching above his expected weight and still looks to have room to grow. Super impressive year so far for his Cavan lads. If he can keep them competing without their talisman in the upcoming games (I'd expect they'll be a handful) he'll be building an impressive base to launch from next year. Tony McEntee seems to be the pick of the bunch alright on the limited consensus here.
Rochford only got one all ireland with Corofin. Some people think he should have achieved more with the crop of players he had. In regards to Andy, great player but like you I have seen nothing to say he is the man to improve things - the defeat to new york was enough to prove it.
That is terribe if true about Deane as I heard he took that defeat bad enough. He would have been ideal to move up the chain as he would have had a good relationship with the players considering they got to the final. Not surprised thou!!
The reason I asked is that you had Andy as a non-runner, but included McConville, so just wondered what the thought process was.
Personally I don't think Andy has shown enough yet, but I don't think McConville has either.
I think McEntee could be a very good appointment - the more I see of Rochford without McEntee, the more credit I'm inclined to give McEntee for our 2016/2017 setup!
Why not? We usually don't have a long list of AI winners rushing to manage us. Worth considering anyway and he has an affinity for Mayo, based on podcasts I've heard him on over the years. Maybe even as an assistant to McEntee. 2 Crossmaglen lads.
In a way it's a bit premature to be discussing a McStay replacement but if we don't see some signs of progress for the remaining games a lot of debate will begin on whether a third year is desirable.
"Work commitments" could also just mean work commitments. I do agree that he had a very nice minor team and they seemed to like him as a coach. But he probably did a bit too much talking and engaged a bit too much with the local media in the run up to that final though. It felt like the pressure got to them, whereas Galway prepared for that game almost unnoticed. I'd like to think he'd do things differently again. He probably should still be involved in underage if was interested.
I think we dont do enough to develop our coaches. Sean Deane should have been involved in U20s this year, not necessarily as head coach. Yes they lost the final that perhaps we should have won, but he developed players who played an excellent brand of football and should have had the opportunity to continue that development. It as instructive that after all appointments had been made for this year he stated he was stepping away this year due to "work commitments", which strikes me as a bit of him potentially not fitting in the inner circle so he stepped away to save face but not burn any bridges
Just putting in names that may be interested so this is speculation. He was under Dempsey's ticket and I read an article way back where he mentioned that he would like to manage Mayo or something to that effect.
The highlighting of managers in this thread by a good few users… and alot of people I speak to are questioning McStay. its only going one way for McStay unless he gets his act together but does he really have the quality either. Tough few weeks now to see what way this turns.
Why would Oisín McConville be a runner?
McEntee is prob the stand out guy and by all accounts the underage manager in Sligo is a guy well placed to take over when McEntee decides to move on.
Andy is not a runner. Other outside manager like Kevin Walsh and Oisin McConville might be interested.
He wont be coming to Mayo.
Who would your first choice be?
Ger Brennan! I’d sooner go without a manager
I have no evidence of this, but I think Tony McEntee was the one who made Stephen Rochfords Mayo team so good. SR was mediocre at best when involved with Donegal and while the season is not over, I see very little progression in this Mayo team over 2 seasons or even any clear template of what they are trying to do.
I dont think he'd get involved with us again
Anyway, unfortunately I think we are wasting away the last days of Cillian O'Connor, Aidan O'Shea maybe even Paddy D and Diarmuid O'Connor with the current management team. They are pretty much guaranteed to be around for year 3 unless there is some mad implosion over the 3 games in the group stage, and even then it would have to be something like 3 losses for the CB to get rid of them.
Brennan looks like a strong contender to replace Farrell alright if he keeps going like he is now. That's no good to us though of course.
Andy is very likely to be a contender for Mayo job if they go with the same appointment process again but this time I'd rather someone more experienced with AI medals either as player or coach or better still both. If I had to choose I'd prefer McEntee over Andy.
If he was available Eamon Fitzmaurice would be my first choice but the distance would probably rule that out for him. Same for Jack O'Connor who I'd be very happy with too.
The other names you mention don't inspire me right now. Maybe McHugh but not much to go on there.
If we want a top class AI winning manager I can't see us getting one through the protracted appointment process we had last time. A top name would have to be approached directly and told the job is theirs if they accept it.
Wonder are there any bright young managers around the colleges that would be worth considering?
Any of the folks nationally (especially up-and-comers) catching your eye so far this year?
Can't think of too many names that jump out with big experience or success behind them, so a fresher face might be a good direction at the moment for teams (ourselves or others) looking for a change. - Ger Brennan will be an interesting one to watch with the rest of Louth's season, certainly has potential. Seems to be pencilled in already for the Dublin job in the future where a good showing in the Group Stages might advance that a few years. - Andy Moran another having a good year so far, after the rocky one last year. You'd imagine would be high on lists for a lot of teams if/when they go looking. I'd be surprised if he isn't right in the middle of the battle whenever the next Mayo role does come up. - Tony McEntee doing a smashing job with Sligo at the moment. The whole setup down there seems to be moving in a really positive direction, with McEntee seemingly providing a nice steadying hand at the front of the ship (his years around the Mayo setup all came with really positive words from the lads). You'd be surprised if he doesn't take a step-up the divisions in the near future. Beyond that it starts getting challenging. You're probably looking at folks like Mark Fitzgerald moving up in level, older hands like Malachy O'Rourke or James Horan going back to the pump again, or someone like a Kieran Donaghy or Mark McHugh (both huge potential) making the switch over from coaching roles.
You could make that argument yes. He certainly raised standards and discipline levels but I don't feel Horan was as similar to McGuinness as he appeared at the time. McGuinness seems more adaptable to the opposition whereas Horan seemed more interested in Mayo rigidly sticking to a gameplan rather than analysing the opposition.
In any case McStay is still in charge and hopefully we will see some positive signs over the next few matches. But whether he finishes up this year or next year I'd like to see an outside manager come in to replace him.
For me it was Horan who is the closest in his first stent in particular. Horan changed so much over the period he was manager. He found the players and brought us to the top table. McGuiness did to Cassidy what Horan did to Mortimer. This set a standard and everyone knew the ask. Bold moves by both managers that drove a very different agenda to what went on before. The only difference is that MuGuiness got one and we let a few fall through our fingers.
I don't think there is a Mayo version of him at the moment. John Maughan was possibly the closest to him in terms of mindset and organisation during his 96-99 stint.
But Jimmy has AI medals as a player and manager and should have the respect of any dressing he walked into. The Jack O'Shea experience seemed to scare us off looking outside the county but that was 30 years ago and it's probably time we moved past that.
We have probably missed the boat with Jimmy though and he may not have been interested anyway.
Jimmy is from Donegal
The players he coaches are from Donegal.
There is no guarantee his success would translate to another county.
If what we heard is true a big part of the success of 2012 was the "all in" nature of it.
The absolute commitment to the task and the system above all else.
That's much easier to do when the person who is asking you to do it is from your own county.
I'm not for a minute downplaying what Jimmy did in 2012, personally I think Donegal's success that year was one of the greatest achievements in the history of the GAA, nor am I downplaying what he has done thus far this year.
I'm just not sure it would translate to Mayo.
What Mayo needs to do is find their own version of him.
oisin gallen couldnt kick off his left last year , super score today imagine what he could do with the likes of fergie b and ryan o donohue ,
Yep that about covers it.
He's just the type of manager Mayo need but will probably never get based on past appointments.
Thankfully we never made the move for Mcguiness He is a dinosaur Out of touch with the modern game A one trick pony Can’t win anything without Murphy A soccer man
Have I missed anything ?
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