The new aid from the US buy's time and nothing else imo. Hopefully Ukraine can hold the line over the summer as I expect Russia will launch an offensive. It also allows time for Europe to get it's act together, The US has delivered something this time but all the faffing around shows Europe can no longer rely on them. Europe has to have the capability to defend and supply itself and to deliver what's needed for Ukraine.
I presume you're all over the Donald Trump thread so, what with his unfunded tax cuts for billionaires?
China, Iran and Russia working in concert to destroy US and Europe however doesn't concern you.
Think of every euro and dollar spend in Ukraine as insurance against your own kids having to be kidnapped and you having to die to defend your freedoms.
Which reminds me, time of month for me to donate to united24
Ok one last reply. I am concerned about the USA's long term economic health, yes. They are a global powerhouse and could plunge the world into a major recession were they to get into major financial difficulty. That would impact global security and more wars would result.
I and most people in this thread would agree with you, certainly all Ukrainians fighting for their lives do. It is not these people who need convincing. Know thy enemy is just as important in politics as it is in warfare. You understand the why and you may be able to find the how to avoid the opposition. What I was simply saying is that I can understand some of the reasons why people would object to spending money on a foreign war even if I totally disagree with them (and they are plain wrong :) ).
While I find this a very interesting subject it is not really one for this thread so I'll leave it there.
I think we've got it at this stage. You're delighted Ukraine is getting weapons but you're inordinately concerned about the USA balancing its books in the long term.
I agree that the sum being sent is relatively small (even less when you consider that much of it is being invested in the US) but that money could make a huge impact somewhere I imagine. The US after all has many societal problems. I am not going to argue where it could be spent as to be honest, I am delighted that it is being made available to Ukraine and I am not a US citizen so don't know (or care) where else it is needed.
Seems like Chasiv Yar is in trouble. There's been footage of russian SU34s flying overhead providing close air support with impunity.
Sooner the aid (assuming AA ammo included) arrives, the better.
Kind of feel sorry for a poster who spent last few pages trying to paint Russians as cuddly teddy bears that are no danger to anyone
Only for the other arm of the Russian propaganda machine to undo all that work
So, for the umpteenth time, what does this "peace" look like, in your eyes?
The cost of russia succeeding far far exceeds the sums being provided to Ukraine. The GQP dunderheads don't understand that, the GQP putinista's might and are really looking to reduce the cost on russia.
Anyone (anyone) complaining about budgets, debts and money trees and not understanding this or explaining this is also a dunderhead.
The cheapest way out is for russia to get out of Ukraine and abandon an already failed endeavour and then to try and start normalising relations with other countries again.
Just looking at the numbers for the USA economy at the same time is also relevant as the largest economy of one country in the world with a gross annual national product of over 25trillion dollars the new aid bill for Ukraine to assist it in its struggle against putin's terrorists amounts to less than a quarter of a percent of the GNP figure. The benefits to the US economy in sales of what it produces directly to Ukraine and also with a potential for an improved world economic outlook with a reduced threat from an expansionist military/terrorist nation then this investment could pay back financially to the USA multiple times over particularly if it helps bring peace back to eastern Europe where the USA has an interest in growing trade. It might be a marginal cost to tax payers in the USA this year that will very likely lead to economic growth that would lead to a lower tax burden on US tax payers in years to come.
The education system seemingly has dropped big time in Russia.
Or Putin just elects dopes to serve him.
There's a polician warning now the aid package from the US to Ukraine will ensure the US faces humiliation like it did in Vietnam.
Has it really passed Russian politicians by that Ukraine has the Russian soldiers death rate over 400k and the most modest report has it at 60k.
Is there a dark humour that Putin's serfs are always speaking in double innuendo and this is them knowing they've phucked up big time in entering Ukraine to end it as a country and they now all face a revolution and break up of the landmass into statelets such has the incompetence in allowing themselves be ruled by an out of touch warmongering dictator modelling himself on what he claims he's against, a long dead Mr.Hitler.
I totally agree (as a non US citizen) but I think it's important for people to understand that there is no magic money tree. Someone has to pay for all the aid given to other countries and that in the end is the tax payer and consumers. It's easy to say that the US, the EU or Ireland should give them everything they need but in the end someone has to pay and every penny paid is a penny that cannot be invested elsewhere.
With all that said, I fully back the EU, the US or any country supplying weapons to Ukraine. It has to be shown that the invasion of a country for expansion and/or a resource grab is not acceptable and will come at a heavy price to the attacker.
What do you think would be Trump's approach to ending the conflict? He has stated that he will bring it to an end.
Something monumentally stupid, like bending over to Putin, or escalating even further. Depends on which way the wind is blowing. Only last week he called what Russia is doing a "holocaust".
Are Europe really as hawkish politically as the Americans, when it comes to backing these sort of military engagements? The yanks certainly seem to think we're lacking in that department.
Ah the old clumsy divide and conquer approach eh? The problem for Putin is Europe has become more "hawkish" by the month. If the US decide to go isolationist under Trump(imho I think that ship has sailed) expect Europe to go even more all in.
Personally, I would take that as a compliment coming from some of the neo-cons in Washington, who seem eerily calm about the possibility of a third world war breaking out. We seem a bit more sensible over here in Europe. (hopefully anyway)
Annnnnd, we're back to waving nukes around. That never gets old. Remind me again who invaded whom? Who is responsible for insane destruction, millions displaced and hundreds of thousands of lives destroyed?
It does a bit more than that, though. For example, this appears to be going to be done without Ukraine having to pay>
A good chunk of the money for 'Ukraine aid' which is staying in the US is going to improve the defense industrial base. i..e to help the manufacturers make munitions faster, which I think is going to have knock-on effects for Ukraine. Some of the dollars also are going to US military operations in support of Ukraine: The US may not be fighting, but I'll defy anyone to say they're not conducting supporting operations like passing intelligence or repairing things.
Any "peace treaty" not guaranteeing post war borders & Ukrainian territory by NATO forces won't be viable as Russia won't be stopped from tearing up such an agreement at a future date & invading the rest of Ukraine. The tankies & useful idiots, far right & hard left vermin won't want this as they demand total Ukrainian surrender as always, whilst "calling for peace", then demanding NATO be abolished.
Ukraine giving away the currently occupied lands to Russia means it would not be a viable state without proper defensive access to the Black Sea. Whilst parts of Donbas region could be handed over, both the south coast & Azov sea region & Crimea being also given to Russia would never happen unless Ukraine is totally conquered.
Maybe parts of Crimea & the Azov south coastal region could be a United Nations demilitarised zone, ensuring Ukrainian access to the inland sea coast after a peace treaty. That's all Russia will potentially get, Donbas & a bit more if Ukraine decides to do a deal IF NATO agrees to secure Ukraine's borders. To do so would require having defendable territories against a future Russian invasion.
I don't see any future peace treaty for another 2 or 3 years, even then there might be a ceasefire & no peace settlement, with Ukraine being in limbo, similar to the Korean peninsula. Until then the war will continue as both sides are essentially not beaten in a military capacity for a long time yet.
The EU & Western European governments now need to properly step up & ensure more substantial aid arrives in Ukraine by the end of the year. Everything Ukraine needs should be supplied unless Europe wants to deal with 10 million refugees displaced by a Russian victory, which would cost every European citizen much more in financial costs than giving Ukraine proper military & civil aid & assistance.
I vehemently disagree with that comparison…
…the xenomorphs were competent at what they did…
I see where you’re coming from, but there’s a difference between remote controlling an FPV drone and doing the same with an aircraft that has multiple different electrical, hydraulics, fuel and electronic systems, and is not designed to be remotely piloted. Now don’t get me wrong, I do believe that the A-10, as a manned aircraft, could be a very useful tool for the Ukrainian Air Force, much more effective than their current ground attack aircraft, the Su-25. But it needs the proper environment to operate in, and right now, that environment does not exist. As I said before, get the F-16s into Ukraine first, see how well they are able to seal off the airspace over the front, and then we can talk about strike or ground attack aircraft.
I say we just nuke Moscow from orbit...only way to be sure.
Get that reference and see what Russians are to humanity now
I agree the A10 converted to a drone would not be very suitable to a role as a deep penetration stealth drone application for the reasons you point out, but it is heavily armoured and if converted to operate without a pilot or piloted remotely as the Ukrainians seem to be capable of engineering then I don't see it as being that crazy to take a plane that would otherwise be scrapped and put into service in the front line air space where it could still be of use for its effective ground attack weapons and even just flushing out the positions of putin's air defense systems. Ukraine's armed forces claims to have already eliminated 767 of putin's anti aircraft systems so in my opinion taking some scrap and using it to help eliminate a few more could make life for Ukrainian pilots easier and help turn the tide on the front lines in Ukraine's favour.
Would old MIGS not be scrapped for parts?
Feels like if it were a worthwhile tactic, Russia would be using old MiGs and the like in a similar fashion.
Still not worth the effort, if not even crazier. The reason those converted sports planes are getting through is because, apart from a few structural beams and the engine, there’s next to no metal involved in their construction and as a result, their radar cross section is pretty much as small as you can go. Also, they’re relatively quiet and the engine noise can easily be confused with a moped or something similar.
Compare that to an A-10, or indeed any combat aircraft approaching retirement in the west, which is an all-metal design and has a correspondingly massive radar cross section that will show up clearly on any air defence radar. Also, anyone who hears such a thing go by will know that that was a combat aircraft that just passed by. Besides, you’d be throwing away an aircraft that, despite its flaws and age, is still a highly capable combat platform in the right environment, with a ton of weapons hard points.
Read what he said. Basically any western jet around the world which is due to be scrapped (many are yearly) give them to Ukraine.
They'll load them with explosives and use them as a high powered one way kamikaze drone. So they'll scrap them for the west end no pilot's will be hurt.
They've already converted small civilian planes to drones. So it's a tactic they are familiar with.
Let's hope so. It's been a very difficult start to the year for Ukraine and at the very least this buys them time. Importantly it also buys the EU time to finally get its act together because the US might not deliver a package like this again.
And with every passing year scumbag Putin gets a bit older and more vulnerable and maybe more fractures will appear internally in Russia.
This paragraph from Jax may come in very useful for us all over the next while .. copy paste
If you had actually read the bill,you’d know most of the money in the bill goes to U.S. weapons manufacturers to build back depleted U.S. weapons supplies. Only about 20% of it goes directly to the country, and that’s in the form of a loan. Stop trying to manufacture outrage.
What’s the alternative? When are you gonna ask for your wages and pension in yuan or … lol … rouble?
Apparently, Kommuna. Which is a bit of a shame, really. Fortunately, as a catamaran she's really tough to sink, and is mainly gantries, so maybe she'll survive.
Not that I'm against lobbing missiles at Russian ships, but Kommuna was launched by the Tsar's navy and has no offensive capabilities, so gets a bit of an exception from the historian in me.
Must have been even worse in winter
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