Really?
Anytime he played against Leinster he was never a stand out player. In Europe he has struggled against the top teams.
He went to the WC in 2019 and it didn't work out, he didn;t really live up to the billing when playing
He hasn't played for Ireland for years, was never in the conversation till the very end of the last cycle when Ireland already had a number of players in that position. All of whom I would say are better
He went to the WC with South Africa, his home country, because of an injury to another player
He won it and fair play to him but not sure Farrell or anyone else would even pick him now if available for Ireland. So why would the IRFU see it as a mistake or offer to pay his wages?
Did I say that? I said the 6 nations is the money earner in Irish rugby. The World Cup isn't
When have we stopped players leaving?
Inflammatory language aside ("ponce, ensemble of dimwits"), it's not mutually exclusive.
With regards Munster, yes they struggle to produce a centre (much like Leinster, comparatively, struggle to produce a 9). But going back 5-6 years or more, that argument would be much broader than just centre. I think it's fair to say things are going in the right direction there?
Ulster fans will be more familiar with there situations, but it seems to me they absolutely have questioned some of the recruitment and managerial decisions.
You can ask all that AND still think the imbalance in central contracts are a problem too.
Will no Irish team ever be allowed to be favourite for the EC again? Obviously if they are favourite for the EC they are also going to be favourite for the URC.If you arent hyperbolic and there is such an imbalance then your solution for Leinster not to be allowed sign Barrett and his six month contract be spread across the other provinces will not even scratch the surface.It is like those who say the world is on fire due to climate change and then propose an extra recycling bin.Either things aren't as bad as you say or there needs to be a huge change in the IRFU approach, which will significantly drag Leinster back. There is no way to have it both ways.
Will no Irish team ever be allowed to be favourite for the EC again? Obviously if they are favourite for the EC they are also going to be favourite for the URC.
If you arent hyperbolic and there is such an imbalance then your solution for Leinster not to be allowed sign Barrett and his six month contract be spread across the other provinces will not even scratch the surface.
It is like those who say the world is on fire due to climate change and then propose an extra recycling bin.
Either things aren't as bad as you say or there needs to be a huge change in the IRFU approach, which will significantly drag Leinster back. There is no way to have it both ways.
@Foxtrol
Will no Irish team ever be allowed to be favourite for the EC again?
Not at all the point I was making.
For clarity. I'm not at all saying that, alone, is the sole solution. (There needs to be others too). But it is indicative of a problem.
I doubt that i could ask questions right back but i can imagine your conversing in good faith
Negative. Just questions.
I dont follow your logic iv never mentioned joe mccarthy
Watching Joe McCarthy these last few months, I'm not sure how you can come to that conclusion so definitively.
I assume this os some sort of parody or fishing account is it?
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I was replying to you in one post.
If I was an Ulster fan, I'd be wondering how my team gets nilled by Sale? I'd be fuming that Balacoune has seen no improvement and looks to have regressed. I'd wonder why large portions of the funding is chucked at he likes of Vermuellen, Piatau and the glaring holes in the pack are ignored.
If I was a Munster fan, I would question the bizarre notion that Munster have not developed a center above Urc level in 20 years. I'd question why a ponce like VanGrann was suffered so long?
Leinster are very well run. The provinces appear to be run by Father Ted and an ensemble of dimwits. I'd question why the provinces are run like this.
Mod: No need for abusive terms.
Its a wider conversation than kleyn vs anyone else tbh but we can agree it was a mistake either way
But - as always happens here - people think about Kleyn's exclusion only in the context of McCarthy's inclusion, and sure Leinster/Ireland/cohesion.
The reality is that the next cab off the rank after Joe was Kieran Treadwell, and you cannot make the cohesion argument for him.
So again, either not rated (rightly or wrongly) or Kleyn wasn't interested.
Nobody knows who or what you're responding to, Dub, if you don't quote the post in question.
I just specifically meant asking those questions on here. But there is a point that they're asked, by proxy, thru the media also. Fans are paying customers, so I think they're entitled to that.
To echo a point someone else made, I don't think anyone would argue that Munster didn't have development issues. That seems to have improved significantly in recent years.
And yet for all the failure over the last 2 or 3 seasons its all 1 score games. Playing down to the opposition perhaps
Or they could say that Barrett is arriving as Ngati is leaving!
So rassie just picked him as soon as possible for the craic and put him into a world cup final for maby the best second row on the planet as some sort of prank?
Im not sure that adds up. Goin off topic with it now i didnt think this could be disagreed with this much
So some fringe players leaving Ireland will bankrupt the IRFU? It's a bit dramatic no?
We can still select players who leave Ireland, we just need to allow it. They'll be available for Ireland games. Who knows, they might even become better players and offer something different to the team.
To keep you 😊
Thats fair farrells not infallible mistakes happen. Id be slow enough to dismiss cohesion being a fact though ots something weve always benefited greatly off of eg. Bod/darcy as centers poc/doc as srs
Reading this after just waking up, I conclude that Ulster and Munster are absolute failures. There's no other way to look at it.
The combined population of both provinces would be similar to Leinster and yet look at the CC contracts. Who's to blame? Both provinces have contributed sweet F.A.
I think if Kleyn was much better than the alternatives, he would have been in more Ireland squads and teams. I don't think he wasn't selected because of cohesion, he just didn't produce the goods when he had the chance. And I say that as a Munster supporter.
The message you were replying to was talking exclusively about central contracts, but I'm glad we've cleared that up.
The cohesion thing is absolute bollocks. Jean Kleyn didn't miss out on Ireland selection because Farrell wanted more "cohesion", he missed out either because a) Farrell doesn't/didn't rate him or b) Kleyn wanted to go back to the Boks or c) both of the above. Absolutely nothing to do with cohesion.
First off the 6 nations keep rugby alive in Ireland, winning that will bring more money in. Not less. A World Cup will not bring in the money the 6 nations does.
You named players who are in and around the Ireland team, them leaving means you are making Ireland weaker.
Ireland also targets to win the WC, they have said that for the last 2 World Cups, that doesn;t mean you bankrupt the IRFU trying to achieve it
Players already have an alternative path, they are entitled to leave if they want. Players wanting to stay in Ireland should not br frowned upon or pushed out to other countries in the vague hope they might get better while making Ireland and the provinces weaker
Beirne is one player, plenty of others have left Ireland for England. How many have returned and turned in a Beirne?
I'd do it this way.
Munster had development issues i dont think anyone would argue there
But none of that helps when it comes to World Cup because our players don't seem to be able to adapt and recover quickly enough. I'd say our players are a bit over-protected. Also the majority of the first 15 would still be in Ireland, it's the fringe players who would leave. It might mean we don't so as well in some 6 Nations or Autumn matches but for me the target now has to be winning the next world cup.
And it's not stripping players from Leinster, it's giving players an alternative path. Where would Tadgh Beirne be now if he hadn't left Leinster, would he have developed into the player he is today.
Where do you direct those questions though?
Since 2010 which is when Munsters decline began after Rabo/HC wins, in relation to the national team, they have produced TWO forwards of note (POM and Donnacha Ryan) and a few who were bit part players at most (Kilcoyne, Ryan, Scannell) in the that time
Where does the question about that get directed when the solution by Munster was generally found in South Africa
The messenge i was replying to said to just produce players that can be of significant importance to the irish team. A player that the best coach in the world trusts to come on for eben etsebeth in a world cup final and was as stated by him key to thr 7-1 split sounds exactly like that type of player to me but he coulnt even make squads. Is it possible that this is proof there are other factors at play than talent (for example the aforementioned priority of cohesion)
Which is not to say theres somr great consipiracy its just a selection philosophy of the current coach and a successful one but it refutes the idea of talent alone being a factor
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