Its not massively valuable; and plucking it out of contaminated mixed recycling isn't cheap.
Basically - despite the constant claims that domestic recycling "worked", it really didn't. One idiot that puts nappies in their recycling bin makes the entire truckload useless; and there's plenty of those idiots around.
I honestly don't know if that whole truckload becomes contaminated. I read a report which of course I cannot find now, I believe it was EU that the price being paid for plastic for recycling varied massively over a certain 10 year period, and in some instances it achieved a minus price and therefore the report recommended not to rely on the value in any recycling plans.
Aluminium has a much more stable value - well, it still goes up and down a lot but the baseline value is still pretty solid.
Only metals are like that really - glass, paper/carboard and plastic flakes are not reliable.
This site will give you one or two price charts then ask you to sign up, which I'm not doing, but you can see changes from negative value to hundreds of £STG per tonne over the course of a year for some materials
https://www.letsrecycle.com/prices/glass/glass-prices-2021/
But actual data is not available which is why you find yourself counting bottles in your local shop. If you (somehow) found your way into ReTurn HQ and got a copy of the actual internal reports, L1011 would still say your numbers are not valid because your method of obtaining them was not above board.
It doesn't, and the idea of a nappy ruining a truck load of recycling is simply not true. I've posted on this thread before about my experience working on a sorting line in a major waste company, the worst a nappy or contamination will do is lose the few items it touches. I really dont understand where this idea comes from (guessing its return looking desperately for excuses to justify their existence).
Just been in lidl, Chinese lad with 6 big black bin liners full to the brim using both machines, no wonder they're always out of order if businesses are filling them up, plus the floor was covered in various liquids for the staff to clean
I heard the latter end of this interview on Radio 1. Fair dues to the listner who text in and asked very succinctly what exactly happens to the returned product. Unsurprisingly the response from the CEO was not very informative, and the host did not follow up to ask for the question to be answered.
Re-turn aren't going to have actual figures cause they also don't know what old stock shops have; but they would be able to make a fairly accurate market-wide estimate.
Counting stuff on shops website is not an acceptable substitute figure, basically.
In the large Centra I've been using as an example, at lunchtime today they had non-deposit stock for about a third of the in-scope shelf space in the fridge still - the three main Coke products have long since changed over there, but there was Dr Pepper, Monster, Prime, Club and other well known brands still non-deposit.
There was a lot more shelf space for Coke products than anything else, I'd say they still restock those faster than others even with that but its still not going to be 90% of sales.
In fairness, the market share of Centra is tiny. 2% maybe? It would stand to reason that Centra would have more older stock than Dunnes, Tesco, Supervalu, Aldi, Lidl etc just from supply chain logistics alone, never mind footfall.
Taken just now at my local Aldi.
There probably more bottles and cans in that cage than in the machine (which isn't working surprisingly)
Would Re-turn not have figures of how many items producers have paid them a fee per item for?
Would also imagine retailers would have records of the deposits charged to their customers.
It shouldn't be a mystery.
Yes, they'll have that but won't know how many non deposit items they sold. That can be estimated to some extent off market data.
Don't know what the relevance of the non deposit items are.
If we have stats of deposit items sold, and deposit items returned, isn't that all we are looking for?
100 sold, 20 returned, then we wonder where the missing 80 are. ( i've no idea of real numbers, just using some made up numbers )
return would have figures for product put on market with a deposit paid and also for returns. But, no one knows, not even the producers, what stock is in the market from pre Mar 16. Stuff like Coke and Club moves pretty quickly and there wont be much pre - drs stock in the market still, but a lot of skus have relatively long sell through, particularly on the alcohol side. Its also pretty apparent that there was quite a bit of stock going into the market from some producers right up to the Mar 16 deadline.
You arent gonna get any reliable data until later in the year when the market is pretty much completely in scope material.
i live on a road where a good percentage are elderly . They get deliveries from Tesco and were quite happily putting their bottles and cans in the green bin . Its now an added burden for them to save store and gather the bottles so most of are just putting them in the green bin as always
So an added 25 cent for them to buy a litre bottle . They have no choice
I always meticulously put mine in my green bin and find this return such a faff which I could do without
This is without doubt the worst thought out part of the scheme.
Green bin usage and compliance was likely quite high (speaking anecdotally from seeing the amount of full green bins on my street every fortnight).
Those people who want to recycle will recycle. Those who don't, won't. 15c or 25c won't change that mindset for people who don't recycle.
Why is a 2 litre plastic milk bottle exempt, but a 2 litre sparkling wardrobe bottle isn't?
Because a poorly rinsed milk bottle will cause a stink in the back of the machine is one reason
But poorly rinsed beer cans are already causing a stink in the machines and we haven't even hit summer yet.
Got there before me. The smell of beer from this cage of rejected cans was pretty nasty last night in my local Aldi.
The odour issue was mentioned in regard to milk containers.
I heard Heather Humphreys saying it on the radio around the time of DRS launch.
It sounds plausible enough but maybe the real reason was lobbying by the dairy industry.
In fairness that's a mess made by people just dumping stuff.
Is the DRS under Heather Humphreys remit?
Not at all but you might have heard of Lakeland Dairies 🙂
Seriously though as I recall she was asked for a comment at the start of DRS rollout and was not surprisingly on message.
I haven’t read the whole thread but is anyone noticing issues with certain types of bottles - we are having a lot of trouble getting the machines to accept the kids sized bottles of things like fruit shoot? The only way to get it accepted is try to hold it until scanned and even that is hit and miss.
I think the issue is it tilts when the belt grabs it and so it can’t be read. It’s not good enough being charged extra for these bottles and then unable to reclaim the deposit.
I've thought that too. It's a blanket exemption for products that include dairy so it's not just milk cartons but also smoothies with dairy, canned lattes, protein shakes with dairy, yoghurt drinks.
And oat milk is included!
e.g. Califia products.
But sure tis all for the environment.
Yes, it was mentioned while back, Lidl seem to handle them best.
I guess at the time she was asked a question and as usual with politicians didn't want to say 'I don't know' so just made up something on the spot. I wouldn't really believe her answer tbh because logically unwashed beer cans will stink as much as unwashed milk bottles.
If people have used manual returns - please list the retailers here.
Mr Price was mentioned?
On the Return website, it doesn't seem to distinguish between machine and manual returns.
Might be useful especially for people have trouble returning e.g. fruit shoot type small drinks bottles.
People that went to the effort of bringing their bottles and cans to the machine, which were then rejected. I can understand why they, in frustration, left their bottles and cans by the machine.
If the machine won't take them, why not leave them there in the hope that Return will take them away to be recycled, which is the whole point of this farce.
I don't see why they should be brought home to the green bin, which could have been used in the first instance except these folks wanted their money back.
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