Employer POV - not sure if its WFH problems or just me

It's either your thing or it isn't. But if it's not your thing.... maybe that's the issue.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122148633#Comment_122148633

I've never attended a team event or informal work meeting where anyone actually got some benefit from it. It's a box ticking exercise from HR or a money spinner for these companies that think everyone in work will get along outside of work if you just add silly games or dressing up. It's a sign of American work cultures spilling over into Irish workplaces.

caviardreams

The issue with these things is that individuals often don't see a concrete individual benefit, but there are much broader less concrete benefits like keeping people connecting, professionalism, team coherence and connection that are not visible or valuable to any individual but valuable to the org as a whole..

Non-work team meetings like this would annoy me, but I can definitely see the point of a standing team work meeting, with an informal slant, if it is the only time the team ever gets together

Sounds like theres not much social interaction if such things are needed.

You have to say at least they are trying to address it.

I think team events and social events are very useful.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122148277#Comment_122148277

Fair enough. It's just been my experience that many workers find these meetings very false and insincere as if they were forced to be chummy and positive around a group of people whom they wouldn't choose to spend time with.

SodiumCooled

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108291#Comment_122108291

During Covid when everyone was full time work from home we would have one big team call for an hour in the week to just chat about stuff - the equivalent conversations as going for lunch or meeting for a pint after work when we couldn’t. Also 15/30 min “virtual coffees” were encouraged through out the week for people to catch up with each other 1 v1. I don’t think it’s a bad thing really in a fully remote company - not really needed for hybrid.

As you say sounds like theres no bonding and they are trying to create it. Can't see it working.. It's a bit like team building exercises.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122105733#Comment_122105733

Just out of interest why would your manager have a weekly meeting about non work stuff , that sounds like a total waste of time. I can understand catching up on work, projects and timelines etc but what do you talk about in a non work meeting?? What about employees who dont gel with each other or workers who just want to work. That to me sounds like forced merriment from ill informed management. Is it an American company?

Backstreet Moyes

I would agree with having the agile approach and two week sprints, you are setting goals and what should be achieved in two weeks.

My manager told me he doesn't care what hours I work once I get the job done, and i am available for meetings.

We have a weekly half hour meeting to discuss work and also a catch up on things outside of work.

We have a weekly meeting with all the team with no agenda but just to chat about non work things.

We have a group chat and when anyone heads out for more than a half hour they let the team know.

We have a meeting two days a week to discuss how the work is progressing and any issues.

Setting two week deliverables make it easy to see if work is not being done.

I head out for exercise for an hour at 10am, and work an hour later in the evening, my manager doesn't care once he knows my schedule, works far better than forced work times with no leeway.

thomas 123

couple of things:

- get slack, asynchronous messaging tool. You can do call on the hop which would set the bar for folks who think they can reply whenever they want.

- make sure you have a very clear work from home expectations doc that all employees must agree to. IE set expectations on time to replies etc within reason.

- hold regular check ins weekly and one to ones monthly , set expectations there if anyone is not pulling their weight.

Ted222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791960#Comment_121791960

You need to separate feelings from reality. If output is down, this should be capable of being measured against output in other corresponding periods. If it is measurably down, you have every right to challenge your employees without coming across as a ball breaker.

You might reasonably point out that output was better before wfh and that if the trend isn’t reversed, you will have to consider going back to the old way of working. It may just focus the mind.

CramCycle

I haven't read all the posts as personally my view as a manager isn't time at the keyboard, its task progression and goals achieved. The tracking ideas, IMO, are terrible as I have staff who work their hours intermittently over the day but get the job done and others who are there all day but struggle to get theirs done, and that has lead to further discussions.

It's a small company, so best to assign tasks and discuss realistic timeframes. Set a company meeting and simply say you want to change the way you do things to give them more freedom.

No tracking mouse movements, Google chat or MS Teams, meet once a week for a catch up, set realistic deadlines and targets, and make sure they confirm they are realistic.

Just saying it a bit confusing to say "management get informed straightaway" if thats not what you meant. What do? I just send a post action report update (email) to the agreed circulation/contact list.

In recent years I've found some people (and/or companies) always reply in a responsible time and some consistently don't. To the point that its a waste of time chasing them. I will refuse to work with certain people or companies. I used to think its strange that some people (or companies) but its become so common I don't blink an eye anymore.

If its your own employee, I think the writings on the wall for them if they are consistently unavailable and missing deadlines.

I don't think that a WFH thing. But thats been well discussed above.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121795949#Comment_121795949

Im not talking about you ping the message, 20 minutes later no reply so straight to the manager. Im also not talking about reporting them to their manager, I meant check with their manager. They are showing as online, but no reply to a message 6 hours previously and a follow up message no reply, what would you do?

Not entirely sure if you're dependent on someone else why you'd not check with each other the day before or that morning they are in and available. Or that's there no contingency cover.

It's not normal if you can't get someone to reporting them to management "straightaway". People can be away from their desk for many reasons.

We would always have scheduled a slot for such things. But would need a check-in before hand.

Milltown is a lovely area. I just signed a lease there.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121792191#Comment_121792191

Core working hours could help with people not being fully available during the work day.

I was about to post something similar. I've worked with global teams for much of my career. Sometimes with overlap, sometimes not. It doesn't matter if the person you are working with is sat beside you or is in India, you need to know and respect peoples core hours. BUT, if you are working on something dependant on someone and you are getting nothing from them during their core hours, management get informed straightaway. Sometimes you might hear back "Oh such and such had a dentist appointment and his team lead forgot to update the time-off sheet", and sometimes the guy appears online and starts rapidly but sheepishly sending all the information you need. Usually suggests his manager tracked him or her down and they weren't where they were meant to be.

If the OP needed the information by 4, told the individual he needed it by 2, assuming they are based within Ireland that's within normal core hours. If the individual takes lunch at 1pm, it is perfectly fine to ask for a status update around 12.30. Aside from being on lunch, silence from the individual looks very bad.

Mrs OBumble

Another thought: If you're going to have employees, you need to consider how much time you put into working in your business vs on your business.

You've talked about issues with managing staff. But how are the sales, marketing and financial management aspects? Are there any regulatory compliance issues you need to work on? How are fraud risks managed?

You might find the Entrepreneurial and Business Management forum is a good place for questions. You're getting good advice here for managing software teams, but as a business owner there's a lot more to consider.

miamee

I've just read the whole thread and have a few points although some have been made already

Core working hours could help with people not being fully available during the work day. Many companies that work asynchronously or have flexible working hours will have core hours where everyone is online and available. The idea being that any queries, questions or team meetings happen during this time and the rest of the time you're working on whatever project you're tasked with.

There are some courses for managing teams remotely, aside from managing output, tracking workloads, you also need to keep the team motivated. Grow Remote offer a Leading Teams Remotely course

Your communication style is, as you've said yourself, very casual. Much more communication is needed when working remotely than an in-person office, over communicate if possible so that nothing is left to chance.

Manager versus employee - you've pinpointed that yourself, you can't be a full-time developer and the sole manager too, the more employees you have the less this will work so you need to decide how to solve this one. Is it hiring someone to manage or hiring another developer and managing things yourself.

One last things - given you've expressed how hard you work, are you available to the team if they ask you for help or advice during the working day? If you fob them off at all they may just stop asking, slowing them down to work things out themselves when they could have got a quick answer from you. It's not something you have indicated but I have worked alongside developers and I know when they are down a rabbit hole you could be waiting a while for a reply to any question :)

caviardreams

Completely agree - the first line is exactly what management is, and if you are not doing it you are probably under-managing which is just as bad.

Don't be afraid to have documented outputs, timelines, progress updates etc. This is areal advantage of WFH - it forces things to be written down more as verbal, informal updates are not as easy or regular

Having a schedule of work and reviewing it on a regular basis is not micromanaging.

Micromanaging is when someone asks you to draft an email then stands behind you rewording it as you type. Or not allowing you to make any decisions that are part of your role.

Once I had to check why someone was being very slow to do a task. On investigation it seemed every step required their managers approval, who was very slow to respond. Thus that person was constantly waiting for approvals.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058336727/employer-pov-not-sure-if-its-wfh-problems-or-just-me

I don't see it as anyone fault. It's just exposed some bad habits and work practices.

I know in our office there's a lot of verbal informal communication, instead of electronic. As a result there's often no paper trail or anything to reference in the future. There's a lot of miscommunication. They will blame WFH. But to be honest it's as bad if not worse the office.

Kurooi

You're not wrong on your assessment, might be wrong on your response. Becoming big brother and pushing down micro management is further going to detach them from work.

I think what you need for a successful WFH is clearly defined responsibilities, outputs and expectations. And communication if those are falling behind. Your employees need to feel they have a stake and own their work, their processes.

If someone can do the job and then relax have a cuppa tea or throw on the match - power to them. If someone is falling behind on a project and stays over an extra hour but still gets off work at a reasonable time because they're at home, great too. I think what the move towards WFH exposed is that many employers have no performance standard in place, no HR, no management and just sort of use employees who should in their own right be treated as professionals and part of the group, as lackeys. The job of the lackey has and always been to just be there and be screamed orders at and once a person unconsciously realizes that's their place that's what they will be. They won't seek autonomy if you deny it to them. They won't work towards excellence if that's not their job.

tiredofhimatmail

Thank you all once again, some very valuable posts here and Im rereading each of them, especially the ones with practical advice on accountability/deadlines/estimates and workflows etc. I am taking away with me to have a think about what I need to formally do in the medium term. For the immedate term I have taken on your advice of at the very least getting estimates for tasks, I have turned that feature on and made it mandatory in Jira, and ive also had a bit of a chat with them.

@noodler Yes, it was definitely a clear difference after WFH started, that being said, as @Flinty997 has pointed out, I believe WFH has brought out underlying issues of poor management on my part. Not saying its all my fault, as in I would rather they were just a bit more self motivated but I get that its not realistic.

@Wanderer2010 , fair about it being no different whether people are home or not and them resenting me if I dragged them, but I think you jumped to alot of conclusions when I mentioned that Im starting to wonder if people should go the extra mile when they WFH, what I meant was, "if you're gonna work from home, go the extra mile to make sure my life isn't being harder because of it, don't punish me for it". That has nothing to do with expecting better output or longer hours than the office.

@caviardreams , yea, you're not wrong about the high performer element, and to be fair I honestly don't expect the same from others, but I do struggle

@MacDanger , he was aware alright, but tbf, it was probably all still a little casual "sure let me know when you're ready and ill get going on my part" kinda thing, which is obviously proving to cause me problems.

@[Deleted User] , thanks for that, yea, I need to stop assuming everyone has the best will in the world! Like I know that particular guy Im describing for example needs management and even a small bit of micromanagement. There's also the question of how much of that I can tolerate myself.

I think short term I have a bit of a plan, but I do need to decide if that's the role I want to do or not.

MacDanger

Some days can be quite bad, Friday I was waiting for the guy mentioned above to get back to me as I needed his bits to continue my work. It was coming towards the evening when I finally started to see some good activity and output from him and then he offered to "stay a little later", which basically means I have to stay later too (I said this to him).

Similar to what others are saying, this sounds like better comminication is needed - was he aware that this item was due for Friday and that you needed to work on it after him so really the deadline for his work was say noon on Friday? If he was aware of that and still didn't deliver, then that's something specific you can discuss with him to understand what was going on.

It also sounds like it would probably be a good idea to introduce the concept of "core hours" if you don't already have something like that.

[Deleted User]

+1 on Agile and Scrum. If this is a small operation then implementing this shouldn't be too big a deal provided you know what you're doing. Don't half ass it either because that brings it's own problems. Look at running Lean and Agile together if possible. As others have said OP, you either manage or continue to develop. You can't do both. If you want to keep developing then I would recommend a project manager/scrum leader that can help implement processes to streamline everything and keep you all on track. If you want to manage then I would suggest focusing on that, taking a course or whatever you need to do.

If your operation continues to grow and you don't have a process stream, methodology and governance in place you'll soon find yourself untangling a rats nest of poor process and bad habits.

RoboRat

I work from home most days and my team also tends to be remote. The key to success is to set rules, plans, and expectations. I use scrum methodoligy and we have 2-week sprints. Everyone has their duties and goals and if they aren't achieved, we discuss them at the next post-sprint meeting to analyse why it happened. We also look at what was achieved and discuss how we can fine-tune certain things, or take note of the successes and what we should do more of.

Anything that isn't completed is carried over and this tends to ensure it gets done because we hate seeing something constantly being carried over. I also have monthly one-on-one meetings to discuss their job, their needs, and so forth.

I use both email and Teams - if something is urgent, I will call via Teams. If I want a trail of communication, then I will email. A lot of the time I use both as I may need to alert them but follow up with an email with more information. I leave my team to do their job and they know that I am trusting them to do it. I don't micromanage them but rather get stuck in, and act as a mentor or sounding board when they need it. I want remote to work and so do they, so it works for us. I also keep a work tracker (smartsheets) to see what projects are in place, what everyone is working on, and when it should be completed - this includes my tasks.

I don't think it would work if I didn't have the structure in place. Everything needs to be managed and our roles and projects must be defined and measured. I also try not to give them the answers but rather lead them down a path to the answer, or the way I want them to go. This way, they are figuring it out and learning from the process. If I just told them, then it would be a cycle of micromanagement and I want independent, free-thinking, and proactive team members.

There are lots of online courses but I would suggest Agile Scrum and ACT (advancing your coaching techniques)... or just a coaching workshop.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787562#Comment_121787562

Agreed. A good methodology is SMART goals.

SMART stands so Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant, and Time-bound.

More information here: https://www.mindtools.com/a4wo118/smart-goals

You are the problem here 100%, and i say that having a lot of experience in wfh and hybrid the last 5 years.

Your red flag statement that really stuck out was saying if you want to wfh you should be doing more just to prove you can wfh...what a ridiculous and illogical statement. The whole purpose of wfh is to allow people to do their duties in a reasonable 8 or so hours day then log off and live their life without having to be on call 24/7. It sounds to me like you are totally projecting your workplace standards and long hours onto everyone else and you cannot do that.

Look. Some people will take the p!ss wfh and in office. Some are excellent in both situations. It varies. If you think dragging people back to the office to improve response time will work, you might be surprised. People will resent you taking that perk off them and will drag their feet even more so if i were you i would suggest not expecting other people to be the same as you and do a 15 min morning catch up to set expectations and response times and take it from there.