How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
It's the wider point I was making.
There is a lot of facetious points and arguments being made on the thread using CO salaries to play poormouth.
If the lowest paid grade, and by no means a representative one, in an organization is constantly used as a benchmark then the narrative will always be skewed.
There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that one grade or position in an organization is usually the starting point for many with promotion equally, if not moreso, important for improving one's lot than wage increases.
AP pay wouldn't cut it for what IT HEOs are doing now
Nothing stopping the civil service using the Engineer grade for IT staff. A few public bodies have done that already, able to bridge the gap between HEO and AP.
Sadly that's how many people see them.
Well... 🤣
But seriously, it means that there is zero scope to improve the pay rates of critically undersaffed sectors. So, basically, suck it up for at least 3 years...
Like civil service IT?
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What does that make service officers then?
Akin to something you'd scrape off your shoe by the sounds of it
Have you forgotten how the last round of electronic voting went?
In this day and age it's mad they can't do electronic voting rather than postal
They're too busy patting themselves on the back.
I still haven't heard anything yet from Union, wonder have I fallen off a mailing list.
Still gating hiw these"deals" lock in wages for sectors.
There are several sectors which needed pay reviews but the way these deals are structured means that nothing will be done.
Entry level for who?
Who are the muppets then?
There are certainly muppets posting on the thread alright.
Do you do anything but post on boards all day every day? I can hardly go to a thread without you having an input.
Entry level grade tbf
It's qute a way off actually
Nobody wants industrial action but if it has to be done it has to be done. We can't keep on signing up to pay deals which leave us worse off. Nobody will regard a career in the public sector as attractive the way things are going, the pension used to be regarded as compensation for the crap pay but the pension scheme since 2013 is diabolical.
I was referring to you saying “many public servants will be lucky to see half this increase in their pocket”.
The budgetary adjustments means a 5% rise for a higher tax worker means they will pretty much see that 5% increase in their net. The adjustment in bands is to allow for that and the value of that money remains the same equovalent.
A lower tax bracket worker will see the percentage increase directly.
It shouldn’t be added on like I tried to argue before. I was wrong on that and conceded to Hotblack.
You seem hellbent on just slinging Im a government shill instead of discussing your actual argument. It’s bizarre.
"Youre leaving out the budgetary adjustments" . . . . .Now I know you're a bluffer. I've given you the Mathematics for 2024 and you went on a major bluff. I don't care about "budgetary adjustments" and neither should any public servant.
My numbers are not wrong.
Course it would have passed. 9.5 is going to pass by 90%. If the % needed is 51 then it would have passed. Not sure if that’s how it works though.
I’ve never questioned where you got your numbers from, that much is clear.
You’re comparing pay on a single day to pay over an entire year. If you want to argue the effective pay increase in 2024, you have to compare it to the average pay in 2023.
Your method requires you to acknowledge that the previous deal filters into this year as it was in increments. Effective pay for PS workers goes up by more than just what is in this new deal. We are getting a greater rise then you are saying. In the same way for 2025, you have to acknowledge that this years changes effect next year when comparing it to any budgetary changes.
Youre leaving out the budgetary adjustments which means the increases roughly will translate directly through. I was incorrect earlier in saying they should be added, they shouldn’t, they keep it roughly the same.
Again, Greyians figure doesn’t change the validity of your argument. His figure is much less than 7.8% but is a fair comparison.
Your argument is right (even if I don’t like or agree with it). It’s an entirely logical position to take. Your numbers are wrong. The correct numbers still back up your point.
That is your opinion. I think it would have passed.
Here is the Mathematics:
A person on €x per month on December 31st 2023 receives €12x in 2024 with no pay rises.
Under this deal a 2.5% pay rise (to €1.025x) from January 1st, a further 1% pay rise (to €1.03525x) on June 1st and a further 1% pay rise (to €1.0456025x) on October 1st sees their gross salary come to 5 x €1.025x + 4 x €1.03525x + 3 x €1.0456025x = €12.4028075x
€12.4028075x / €12x = 1.03357. . . . . a 3.357% increase which will be taxed FOUR TIMES with PAYE, USC, PRSI, Pension Levy.....Many public servants will be lucky if they see half of this percentage increase in their pockets.
Now onto Jobseekers Allowance. The payment increases by 5.45% with no taxation with a double payment in January & December. These two double payments makes this an overall increase of 7.4% for those who don't want to work.
It's a crap deal for public servants.
I’ve voted Labour my entire life (or ex Labour members who went independent).
In the last election, of 18 candidates in my area. FG received #17, #18. SF #15 #16, FF #13 #14. My number one was Labour, #2 SD, and between those numbers I’ve no idea who I put where.
And yes, I filled it out to all candidates solely to put the FG candidate last. (I’m obviously not exactly sure if it was 18 candidates but the bottom order is correct).
So how exactly am I a FF/FG supporter if I don’t vote for them?
If I was a FF/FG supporter, why would I say ‘use Greyians approach but your argument remains unchanged. People on JSA will get a bigger percentage increase but the figures you are using are bollix’. Surely I’d just defend the PS rise?
Well supporter’s obviously there has to be. Did they not get about 50% of the last vote combined? I thought you meant TDs or party members.
Where am I wrong? Peter can use whatever statistical measure he wants.
Nothing you’ve said is wrong.
Do you think Peters or Greyians comparisons are fair? Greyians is much fairer imo.
Ive also no issue saying I’m wrong. Scroll a few posts up, I agreed with Hotblack Desatio and rowed back my own comments.
What was the inflation rate last year? You claimed it was 6.3% because this was the average rate in 2023. Thats not the inflation rate for 2023!
Youre now comparing two completely different sets of numbers working off entirely different assumptions.
Again, if you take Greyians maths, it doesn’t weaken your argument at all?
You'd be wrong on that. . . especially with regard to FF/FG supporters.
People say public sector strikes don't work? Mary Lou McDonald is now on her way to Northern Ireland to historically see a SF first minister because the DUP couldn't withstand the pressure of one day of public sector strikes in Northern Ireland.
Until we have union leaders in Ireland who aren't in the pockets of politicians & Official Ireland we will, as public servants, continue to get crap deals where we are given less than those who refuse to go out and get a job.
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