How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
I really doubt people from any of those organisations give a shite enough to post here tbh.
Not taking lessons from you on inflation.
Do people feel there are muppets from FF/FG or the DPER posting on here?
I am right.
Well it’s not correlation I’m referring too…
what is technically incorrect about “statistical significance”? Nothing…. It’s a broad generic term.
If you wanna call someone out, be right.
Okay. But that appears to fly in the face of your earlier comments where you demand mathematical precision.
You could just say, sorry, got my terms mixed up.
Im using “statistical significance” as this isn’t a maths forum and dragging something to the weeds of the semantics of maths isn’t important.
You thought inflation was over 6% last year because the average rate of inflation was that.
What you’re comparing to JSAs is apples and oranges. The comparison is BS. What Greyian does, makes sense. It’s a fair comparison.
Again, it doesn’t significantly change much and the percentage is still lower for the PS pay deal. Yet, you refuse to engage with Greyian and outline why their comparison isn’t valid in your opinion.
You don’t understand statistics.
8% over 2.5 years has no chance of passing
I think both of you are using "statistical significance" incorrectly. You appear to mean "correlation".
No statistical significance? It's a fact that those on Jobseekers Allowance are receiving more of a percentage increase than public servants in 2024. In fact those on JA will receive more of a percentage increase in 2024 than public servants will under this entire deal from January 2024-June 2026.
You're perfectly entitled to do whatever you want. There's no statistical significance between the numbers you compare. Its an utter nonsense mathematical argument.
If you take Greyians analysis, it really doesn't change your argument but gives you actual insights that have statistical significance. Of course, you refuse to even engage with someone that disagrees with your viewpoint.
Utter nonsense. The changes last year were under a previous deal. I'm fully entitled to note that those on Jobseekers Allowance are receiving a 7.4% increase in 2024 and those working in the public sector are getting a 3.2% increase in 2024 which they pay PAYE. USC, PRSI and Pension Levy on whilst having none of the extra entitlements that those on JSA claim (free medical card, HAP, etc)
You didn’t need to clarify…your point was just as stupid without it.
Agreed. Plenty of disabled can't work and will never be able to work and should be on DA. I actually agree with the tiered system they are looking to introduce regarding DA. Anyway off topic I suppose.
if you're on JSA long term you're almost definitely a chancer, if you're disabled or unable to work there are other schemes that you should fall under
Nobody?
There won't be industrial action it's a simple as that. If they had of stuck with the 8 percent there wouldn't have been industrial action. I know how disappointed you are at that. You seem really angry considering the deal you were looking for wasn't far off this one.
Try reading a post before hitting reply.
I was replying to a post about the possibility of significant work practice changes being made.
We all know you think industrial action is an impossibility (it still scared you into joining the union though)
and pay mortgage or rent, don't forget. Seeing as though we're talking about LTJSA here. Nobody should be long-term unemployed in Ireland.
There is no appetite for industrial action though. I think we all know regardless of the deal being 10.25 or 9.25 it will go through handy enough. People won't stand on a picket over .5 or 1 percent.
Yeah. But what they're not saying is that with no agreement in place, we can take whatever industrial action we like if any such changes are made.
Absolutely zero chance of anything like that happening, general election is due within, what, 13 months at most?
You won't find anyone trying to do a fair comparison here.
If Peter wants to quote the effective change due to the deal this year then he has to factor in what changes were made last year and the effective gross increase compared to 2023. Anything else is mathematically flawed. What you're saying is perfectly correct.
The ironic thing is, the maths falls that is still is less than 7.4% but you're unlikely to see anyone budge from their positions.
There are no good examples to give really. I know CO's who are better off than PO's because they are married and have 2 incomes.
Im not PS, but if my union had negotiated that I would be leaving the union. Might as well not have them. Its the worst deal ever. Its almost like they dont know what inflation is.
"Most staff" are not COs. The reason AP was chosen for the illustration was also given in a previous post (https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121677761/#Comment_121677761, first full paragraph) and it is because an AP's increases during the proposed pay deal will always be based on salary %, rather than a fixed sum (e.g. the January 1st increase of 2.25% or €1,125 will be worth more than 2.25% to a CO, as they will get €1,125 which is more than 2.25%).
So, let's run this scenario with a CO at Point 1 on their scale. Right now, Point 1 on the CO scale is €534.34 per week (or 27785.68/year, assuming a 52-week year, which most years are for payment purposes, or 2315.47/month). To work back to what they would have gotten in 2023, we have to first account for the 1.5% or €750 (which would have been €750 for a CO at Point 1) increase on 1st October 2023. Prior to that, their salary would have equated to €27035.68/year (or 2252.97/month). On 1st March 2023, there was also a 2% increase, which means prior to that increase their salary would have equated to €26505.57/year (or 2208.80/month).
So, from that, we can figure out their 2023 gross salary. They had 2 months (Jan/Feb) at 2208.80/month. They had 7 months (Mar -> Sep) at 2252.97/month and they had 3 months (Oct -> Dec) at 2315.47/month. This results in a total gross salary in 2023 for a CO at Point 1 of €27134.80.
So, we now have a starting point for what was earned by our Point 1 CO in 2023 - €27134.80. Now lets work out what they would earn in 2024, under the proposed pay deal.
To begin with, their salary for January 1st without the proposed pay deal, which we worked out to €27785.68. Now, we know that on January 1st, they would get 2.25% or €1,125 (whichever is greater) under the proposed pay deal. They will get the €1,125 fixed figure, as it is greater than 2.25% of €27785.68 (which is €625.18). So, immediately their annual salary for 2024 jumps to 28910.68 (or 2409.22/month). So, for the months from January to May, they will get 2409.22/month. In June, there will be a 1% increase, so their annual salary will increase to 29199.79 (or 2433.32/month). So between June and September, their gross monthly salary will be 2433.32. And then in October, there is another 1% or €500 (whichever is greater) increase. They will get the €500 fixed figure, as it is greater than 1% of 29199.79 (which is €292). So, for the last 3 months of the year, their gross salary will be 29699.79 (or 2474.98/month). So, the total gross salary for a Point 1 CO in 2024 would be 5 months (Jan -> May) at 2409.22/month, 4 months (June -> Sep) at 2433.22/month and 3 months (Oct -> Dec) at 2474.98/month. This totals to a gross salary in 2024 under the new proposed pay deal of 29204.32.
So, in 2023, our Point 1 CO had gross income of 27134.80. In 2024, our Point 1 CO will (under the proposed pay deal) have gross income of 29204.32. This represents an increase of 7.6% in gross income from 2023 to 2024.
But what does this work out at in terms of net pay? Well, in 2023, net pay for a gross income of 27134.80 would have been €23380. In 2024, net pay for a gross income of 29204.32 will be €24762. So the proposed pay deal will see a Point 1 CO in 2024 earn 5.9% higher net pay (€1382/year or €26.58/week) than a Point 1 CO in 2023.
So, what prompted this breakdown of a CO salary? @Peter Flynt's post which erroneously suggested a pay increase for public servants of 3.2% gross in 2024, and @SouthWesterly's post which suggested "Most staff are CO", which is also erroneous but did provide a valid reason for identifying what the proposed pay deal will deliver for the lower paid staff in the public service.
Whether you are in favour or opposed to the pay deal isn't particularly relevant. What is relevant is the frequent misrepresentation of the figures and the real world effects of the pay deal. If you want to claim that a gross income increase of 7.6% for a Point 1 CO in 2024 is either too low or too generous, that's fine. But don't try to claim that it isn't the proposed pay deal won't deliver a gross income increase for a Point 1 CO in 2024 compared to what they received in 2023.
not clock in actually they don't do that but you get me
I'm amazed at this AP business. You do realise most staff are CO and not taking home a grand a week
An AP actually has to get up in the mornings and clock in whilst the jobseeker's biggest worry is whether a snitch in the town is going to see him out working in the hand that day! Doesn't matter if it works out to more, the percent differences matter, also as previously stated there are more increases than just the base applicant's JSA they're getting money for the endless children, the wife, free medical cards, etc
Odd, you seem to be comparing Jobseekers Allowance 2023 vs 2024, but aren't doing the same for public servants.
Why not run the figures for what a public servant earned in 2023 vs what the same position will earn in 2024 under the proposed deal? The calculations for an AP on Point 1 is available in these 2 posts (https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121701501/#Comment_121701501 and https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121701746/#Comment_121701746)
Even regardless of percentages, I'd much rather be the AP see an increase of €2217 in 2024 vs 2023 compared to the jobseeker who will see a net increase of €868 in 2024. The jobseekers increase in 2024 is also related to a once-off double bonus in January, which means any increase for 2025 will be lower unless another once-off bonus is given then.
Vote against this deal. Jobseekers Allowance increases by 7.4% net in 2024 whereas the wage of public servants increases by 3.2% gross.
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