Believe it or not, the idea with the nets was actually tried in the "classic" battleship age at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century. Look at any picture of a battleship, or even some cruisers from that era, and you'll often see diagonal "strakes" along the hull. Those were booms meant to hold anti-torpedo nets and the idea was that these would be deployed not just at anchor, but when transiting through areas that were susceptible to torpedo boat attack, such as confined bays or narrow straits. The idea was quickly dropped though, as the drag produced by the nets slowed the ships down too much. And battleships at the time weren't exactly speed demons to begin with. Similar issues would be encountered today, with any such nets likely obscuring the field of fire of point-defence weapons, potentially causing infrared and radar interference and massively increasing the radar cross-section. Plus, the nets dragging through the water would probably render any hull-mounted sonars useless.
I think what makes them so deadly in the Black Sea is the environment. It's a confined body of water, there's plenty of land to produce background clutter on radar that a drone operator could use as cover during the initial approach and let's face it, the Russian Black Sea Fleet isn't exactly acting like a top-tier navy. Also, it looks as if Ukraine is trying to maximize their chances by picking off BSF ships as they enter or leave port, in areas where they can't maneuver freely.
Regarding your point with Russia opting for similar attacks, I feel like they think that the mines that they laid are enough for now. Also, they probably don't want to piss of Turkey. If ships suddenly start going boom on the approaches to the Bosporus, the reaction might be exactly the opposite of what Moscow might be hoping for, i.E. an opening of the straits, but for NATO vessels. As it stands, the straits are closed for both sides, which, while not optimal, is at least workable, given that Russia can still use its own internal waterways to get at least smaller units into the area.
Any footage or credible source it's an old video ?...
In God’s name how the h*ll did Hungary -aka ORBAN- become a full member of The EU and NATO . Why ? Because when I see ORBAN I see Putin - who cannot be trusted even one mm, will break any agreement reached that does not suit him , etc, etc, etc. And what is ORBAN’s background re communism, etc,etc.
They are in interesting concept especially the idea you can launch them from a mothership or something like a Chinook helicopter or similar heavy lift aircraft,
But looking at the at the attacks there is already a relatively simple counter using submarine nets onlys extended above the water, I'm surprised they haven't actually implemented any other than near Sevastopol and Kirsch bridge,
I do wonder if Russia decides if we can't sail in the Black sea nobody can and Start targeting cargo shipping using there own weapons,
As someone who has quite the interest in naval history, I can't help but get a feeling of deja vu about this. In the 1880s, a line of thinking called the "jeune ecole" evolved in France. In effect, it held that you would be able to defeat a large "classical" ocean-going navy based around battleships by simply swarming them with large numbers of cheap and expendable assets such as torpedo boats, with only a handful of cruisers for overseas colonial work and commerce raiding. It's an intriguing idea but has never really worked out in real life, not when the French tried it in the 1880s, not when Japan tried it in the 1890s. There's even an argument to be made that the Soviet navy tried this approach during the first half of the cold war. Could this be the time that the jeune ecole could actually be made to work?
Possibly, but I'm skeptical. Those suicide drone boats are small enough that even modest size ships can put out a swarm of them, so they're not necessarily bound to shore bases and confined waters. They're low profile so might not show up on radar, or simply be filtered out as background clutter, and they're small enough to make spotting them hard. But they're also slow, susceptible to jamming and fragile, which limits the sea state that they can be deployed in. So this might just be a "Battle of Lissa" moment, one where a spectacular battle result arising from some rather unique circumstances led naval designers down a bit of a dead end for the next four decades.
That's not to disparage Ukraine's efforts. They've clearly found a weapons system and tactic that is bringing in significant results for them. In the confines of the Black Sea, these drones are definitely earning their keep, but I'm not sure that this approach would work in the North Atlantic or in similar blue-water environments.
Wonder what's happened here!
I assume ALL EU funding is examined - on an annual basis- as to how the budget given to various programmes /countries is being used. So the EU should adapt Biden’s strategy ie putting under the one heading the agreement to the budget for UKr and that border wall . In the same way the EU should review at the same time and in the same way how Hungary and UKr ‘ have been ‘ behaving ‘/ using the aid they have been given.
the above will then mean that Hungary would be subjected to the same set of rules as UKr. ORBAN cannot then say ‘ Oh , look at what UKr is doing, the bold boys’ if he is doing something himself
A win win or should that be lose lose.
It looks like the Chinese are threatening the Ukraine to stop Chinese companies from being added to the sponsors of war list
Rotten flour for rotter shells. Seems fair to me.
You can make out on the footage small splashs from what must be 'machine gun' fire from the ship.
It's true according Ukrinform Ukrainian forces destroy Russia's Ivanovets missile boat (ukrinform.net)
The way he likely sees this is he put his country first over and the EU and Ukraine,I think the idea of giving every parliament a discussion and vote on the subject scares the EU , while EU leaders will show a United Front there would be zero guarantee the population of EU states support those views ,
That was a big explosion that finished it off. Hopefully it was full of AA missiles and missiles destined for Ukraine. Kill 2 birds with one stone.
It's particularly hard to stomach seeing that oaf getting anything for his shystering. I'd support any measures that were designed to prevent the entire spirit of the EU from being torpedoed from within.
I've been thinking that myself, but presumably they'll come up with anti-drone technology and equipment pretty quickly. When there's billions of hardware, jobs and investment on the line, you can be sure the boffins will be put to work
Caution is a good thing usually, not always, maybe not in current circumstances.
Liberal and democratic is always a good thing, unfortunately politicians like this around Europe and survival of their values are are under severe threat from movements like that of Victor Orbán, and from Russia itself of course.
What I would prefer to more concessions to Hungary over Ukraine would be for final stage of Article 7 (I think all the other steps are in place already) to be used by the rest of the Council to remove their voting rights.
If any country or countries back them up and prevent this, I suppose those who want to support Ukraine will have to go outside the current EU structures to fund Ukraine. That is not ideal but better than kowtowing to Orbán yet again (I don't know if they did that).
They are already working on a submersed version, but you can bet the likes of the Chinese looking very closely at these attacks, the Americans were already working on armed drone vessels for harbour and coastal patrols,I get the feeling that advisers in Ukraine were more than a helping hand in the design and construction of these new toys ,
A drone navy! Surface and below? The Atlantic would be a far harsher environment but could be done..
That's 20% of the black sea fleet destroyed in total, based on tonnage by Ukraine.... Without a navy!
This war is gonna prove somewhat pivotal I feel, just purely in terms of how influential drones can be on the battlefield when applied smartly and with strategic nous. You'd imagine a lot of military boffins are gonna pour over how and when they're being used. But on top of that: does it kinda prove you can protect your waters with drones & drones alone? Cos while you'd still probably want some ships to chase down drug/people smugglers or pirates, actual offensive action seems perfectly manageable with a supply of drones.
That was insane footage. You don't normally see multiple drones attacking so successfully.
Did it technically blow up or sink! You kinda wish one drone stayed, lying in wait for another ship to arrive to investigate.
If the claim that it's an old video is true (I can't recall seeing footage like that before) it can easily be proven with a link to the old footage.
Russian MI8 helicopter crashed in Syria
Naval ship sunk
Fighter jet downed
EU Funding agreed
Carlsberg don't do February's...
Now hurry up and show me footage of these new glide bombs Ukraine.
A good couple of days for Ukraine with the EU aid package and some impressive hits on Russian military infrastructure. Much more of this needed.
Sure, some of it may be, but I don't see a NATO invasion of Russia on the cards because of that.
Bearing in mind that the EU is a complex, multi State collective, organised and governed by a massive body of laws which restrict Member States in how they can act... what is it that you would have the rest of the 'cautious liberal/ democratic' (is that a bad thing??) EU leaders do, that they are allowed to do, under EU law?
Just saw it now myself. Looks like they aimed right under the SSM launch tubes, which would explain the catastrophic damage. Those missiles are designed to take out ships much larger than the Tarantul class herself, which is on the small side even for a corvette. If even one of them was set off by a USV, that should be enough to set off the second missile on the same side of the ship as well.
I don't think it's a question of the GOP wanting Ukraine to collapse, the problem is that by all accounts Biden is proposing to solve the border - and Trump has panicked & shaking down the GOP to stop it 'cos HE wants to be the one to solve the border crisis. If Biden gets this bill through then he gets to claim "I fixed the problem" in the November run-up; if it's stymied then Turnip can continue to blather on about the hordes of brown people invading, and that only he can fix it (even though he had 4 years to do so but hey-ho).
Ukraine is unfortunate collateral in all this 'cos as we've seen, the local economies appear to be doing well enough for all the increased spending on US armaments. But such is TRump's control of the GOP, and that party's obsession with immigration, that this bill is dragging Ukraine alongside it. Like government shutdowns I think it'll get there, it's just the charade of noise needs to happen first (and if possible, Trump is sidelined too in the process)
Unfortunately I don't believe anything for Ukraine is going to get through their Congress before the US election now. I hope I am wrong.
I have become cynical that Republican party are not worried about it, and calculate that a Ukraine collapse of some sort, Ukraine being forced to humiliating terms by Russia etc. could actually be successfully blamed on the president and the Biden admin. (!) should it happen.
They must be thinking those inside a conservative filter bubble + listening to the "right wing noise machine" for news would buy that narrative.
Nice to see the EU stepping up there.
Seems Johnson still taking the piss in the US though. Although I don't think the full details of the bill have been released yet.
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