Is there a 2024 version of this thread that I've missed? Today's beep beep update will be interesting, but might be a bit skewed towards those manufacturers who already have stock or have had deliveries during January.
There are five 241s in our estate so far and none of them are EVs.
You will probably find a big rush to buy diesels etc "while we are still allowed to".
With people wanting the newest ICE car possible to postpone the move to EV for as long as possible.
Or People just assessing what's out there and opting to buy their preference. Just because one person thinks its mad to buy a new ICE doesn't make it necessary to come up with some kind of convoluted conspirancy theory to explain why others think differently.
There's still 11 years to the proposed ban, which, if the current setup doesnt improve, will likely be pushed back anyway.
I suspect the actual assessment of a typical brand new car diesel buyer in 2024 looks like this.....
"If it's not diesel it's totally useless".
Assessment of alternatives is done in less time than it takes to read this post.
A proper assessment means you look at something like a Toyota hybrid and consider how that should be more reliable then most diesels.
Or you consider a PHEV.
Etc.
My original post was intended to be an observation only. People have been buying cars I disagree with since I first got interested in cars 37 years ago now.
So I'm cool with it.....
Oh dear what cars are they? Looks like those people are underestimating how quick the transition to EVs will be. With big consequences for the second hand value of ICE cars. For once it's a good thing the vast majority of cars in Ireland are bought on PCP so the brunt of the extra depreciation hit will be with the actual owner of the car (not the people in your estate)
Agree the assessment process is non existent by many so sometimes you need to shrug your shoulders and walk away. 3 friends have replaced their cars in recent weeks. 2 diesels and one phev. The diesels were model specific and no other options even considered while the phev resulted from a slightly more involved process summarised as bored with diesel and wouldn't touch an EV. People are strange....
RAV4, i20, Scala, a Ford something and a Toyota something else (not a bzx4qr6). I haven't inspected the backs of the cars (yet) to determine fuel type.
I have to say, so far, I’ve seen less 241 cars than any other January in recent memory.
Interestingly I was talking to an absolute petrol head the other day. Drives motorbikes, goes off to car Rally's across Europe as part of the crew etc.
He was totally anti EV 2 years ago but he even accepts it's inevitable.
There will be a tipped point, but I'd say the secondhand ICE market is safe enough for anybody who buys one this year.
When can we expect some figures to be released?
If I was a betting person I'd go for January figures of:
Petrol 31%
Hybrid 24%
Plug In Petrol Hybrid 10%
Electric 18%
Diesel 17%
I've seen about 10 in my estate.
All EVs , Etron, ID4s mostly
Hybrid.
Slick marketing and sales pitches making people think it's electric without the hassle.
Doesn't sound right. That would *anecdotally* suggest EV's are the biggest share of the market.
How many are company cars though? That's something we haven't been able to get from the figures in the last few years. Incentices are still in place, if they're not held or increased and taper down as planned over the next couple of years it's going to have an effect on the market again unless new ev prices are possibly lower than buying a petrol or diesel by January 2026. If EV depreciation is still a thing they need to be considerably lower.
Would you buy a VW Tiguan for €42,125 or an ID.4 for €39,943. I think in a lot of cases comparable model are now approaching price parity, prices are coming back to the 2020 levels and the depreciation levels look pretty standard for the expected age of cars.
I don't see why a given car being a company car or not is relevant, either way it's another EV in the fleet, and will be available on the 2nd hand market in a few years. Fleet sales are a great way to seed the market.
Company cars not as good a measure of consumer sentiment?
Company car schemes usually have a choice of vehicles, not many people will go from daily driving an EV and switch back to driving a petrol/diesel. Exposure and experience tends to quieten down the fears and uncertainties of something new. It wasn't too long ago that we had people thinking EVs don't work in rural areas, a problem which was somewhat solved by the 1930's rural electrification scheme.
Most people will never buy a brand new car in their life, their market options come from new sales by other people, getting more EVs into the market brand new is the only way to expand the choices and options for the 2nd hand market.
You still pay significantly less BIK on an EV compared to ICE, that is undoubtedly a factor.
It's relavant as if incentives aren't kept up those with a company car will switch back to ice from 2026 onwards, my reply was in relation to waterwell comment on "I've seen about 10 in my estate, All EVs , Etron, ID4s most" where he said "Doesn't sound right. That would *anecdotally* suggest EV's are the biggest share of the market"
Have you ever paid BIK, do you know the savings they're are in your take home pay with an EV over ICE, it's a huge factor to switch, and back to my suspicion if the numbers aren't made public I believe they're deliberatley hiding the information to make it seem uptake amoung ordinarly consumers is way higher than it actually is.
There's no deniying ICE cars are more pratical than EV's for business users, It's not about fear or uncertanitnes it's purely down to cost and pratictiallity. If the tax payer wasn't subsidising EV's for businesses they would nearly all be driving ICE and most still are. My point is in 2026 when there's little incentive besides a not universilly accepted ideological standpoint people will just swith back the easiest to live with option.
I don't agree with your opening position. The unknowns of using an EV are massively overblown by certain media sources and quickly go away when a driver gains some experience, we're long past the days of early Leaf's and their 100km motorway range.
Most company cars are not used for regularly trips up and down the country beyond their range. In terms of practicality, I think for a lot of cases there is barely any difference at all, people are finding that cars just turn out to be cars. For those cases with very high daily mileage there are still hybrids and PHEVs are available and will be until at least 2035.
What were the best selling models for 2023? Is there a graphic with numbers sold somewhere?
e: found this on a press release, but nothing further:
Surprised about the Enyaq, haven't seen many on the roads, and certainly seen more Tesla M3s.
The numbers were never shared for personal purchases by SIMI in the past, why would you believe they are now deliberately hiding numbers that were never shared in the first place.
I guess the only way your argument will be settled is if the government don't change the BIK rules and we see a cliff edge of EV sales in 2026. Who knows we might finally get that drop in sales which people have been predicting since 2017. I'm sure if people cross the fingers tight enough, they can finally see the collapse of the EV market in Ireland, ensuring that we can continue to import foreign fuel and use it to pollute our streets.
You can check on https://stats.beepbeep.ie/ however the database is currently down for the January update. It's likely to be available sometime this afternoon.
Genuine question....
Whats a typical business user situation in terms of weekly or daily mileages.
Because I'm wondering who actually needs 300 miles range in a day.....
I know some people do 1000 miles a week but that's 200 miles average over a 5 day working week.
https://youtu.be/2vVyHXSN9aA?si=GpsJRMEbwOd7XTVf
I think it's been updated for January https://stats.beepbeep.ie/
EV sales increased by 11.84% for January compared to same last year. I’d be interested to know what it will be like for the first full quarter when Tesla offloads the highland and 0%APR Model y
Interesting numbers, very similar to Jan '23 with only petrol hybrids and PHEVs seeming to pick up most of the switch from Petrol and Diesel.
