How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
What's incredible is how hard you're trying to push your own erroneous interpretation of my post down my throat, and how far you're now willing to go to shill for the Union.
Do we have any idea what the non pay terms details that they spent so long discussing were? I've always been a believer that pay is pay and it's easier to get that amended.
Terms are different though. Not always easier to gain extra annual leave for example.
It's coming up on year end and I've 140hours AL to use.
There's always a scramble for end year use because we're understaffed. Extra AL is pointless unless they oay enough and open positions
Now, give me my state pension (which I've paid for in private and public roles) and I'll cheer them on.
"the only way anyone is coming close to that, is the very lowest paid, (think CO on Pt 1) and only if they receive a couple of increments over the course of the deal"
Will the lowest paid worker get a 17% increase under the new deal or not? If they will, how does your sentence tally up with the fact that those on 24k will indeed see a 17% increase?
Its hilarious you call me a Union shill. I was a government shill earlier in the thread according to you. Which is it?
Both. Like I said before, you talk out of both sides of your mouth, when it suits you.
Or, if shill offends you, "runs with the hares and hunts with the hounds" is another description I'd apply to what you do. You might find that easier to interpret.
Nothing to address:
You've offered zero explanation of your sentence. I'm not interested in talking about your personality or beliefs, just the deal.
Okay my final word on this, because you are being utterly ridiculous.
Still waiting on confirmation if anyone knows if there are actually any permanently employed staff cleaners on €24k left in the CS, but as has been confirmed by another poster, (and as I specifically referenced in my post) there will be no COs getting 17% from this deal.
I hope this finally makes things clearer for you.
The Union are misleading members with the figures of 17% and 10.25% to make out the deal is better than it actually is.
Now, I'm really done this time. I've better things to do that indulge your nonsense any further.
It's different for a lot of people I suppose. I use all of my annual leave so another day or two would have been great. But yeah I do see some colleagues who feel they can't be done without and carry over 15 or 20 days yearly.
I think the question needs to be asked of the unions though. They say they didn't discuss pay until late enough in the talks. So what were they discussing and securing.
So you've completely changed your statement and are now trying to pretend that's what you meant?
You gave CO's as an example as they are low paid workers, you did not confine your statement to CO's.
You accept cleaners on point 1 of the scale will see a 17% increase over the term of the agreement. That increments with the rises are not the only way as you previously stated. Your first statement was incorrect.
There are changes to the rules on carry over being introduced from this year.
The three year carry over rule is gone, and leave carried over, and must be used first.
Anyone I've spoken too, would prefer more money, than more leave.
If the deal applied 10.25% equally to everyone, the criticism would be that doesn't go far enough for the low paid.
It has built in mechanisms to ensure lower paid get more - it's the unions jobs to explain this? What on earth is the problem with that?
The amount of people I've spoken to in work who think they are getting 10.25 % is scary. All are higher grade union members.
I have no problem with the lower paid getting a higher percentage, I've been advocating for that since the start of the thread, when others were very against it.
I have a problem with the Union's lack of clarity on who exactly will be getting these figures of 17% and who exactly will be getting 10.25%. I feel they are misleading the members and the general public.
In particular, I don't know how many people I've now explained it to, that its 9.25% in general round increases, and 1% local bargaining, not 10.25% general round increases.
You always have to throw a dig in "colleagues who feel they can't be done without"
Or people just don't like work piling up because their teams are so understaffed that there is no hand off possible, so why bother taking 2 days here and 3 there.
I don't see how it misleading. It's a range.
Local bargaining was given as flat increase where I work. I understand this was the case in the majority of cases but where it wasn't, I wouldn't begrudge sectoral issues/bottlenecks being addressed.
They likely will though. If the application of the 1% last time is anything to go by
Fine, you don't think its misleading, I do.
Especially with headlines like this:
Certainly a lot of confusion and questions amongst those I've spoken with about it.
The intricate details of the deal certainly need to be clarified before they can expect people to vote on it. It's possible the unions are seeking clarity themselves at this point.
most are getting about -0.5 to -0.7% per year in real terms after multiple deductions for paye, prsi, usc, pension levy and 2% base line inflation
Some providers starting to drop mortgage rates. With energy prices coming down and groceries also starting to fall this could turn out to be a really good deal.
Please tell me we don't have to try and explain the concept of inflation to you yet again?
You'd only enjoy that.
Does the below mean that if inflation increases it's simply a case of tough ****? (Yet again...)
If the proposed agreement is accepted, unions will not be able to lodge any ‘cost-increasing’ claims for improvements in pay or conditions during the lifetime of the agreement
Yes we're getting screwed and those here 30+ years will happily accept every bit of it laughing their way to the bank with their golden pension when they let the union leave the rest of us with scraps!
Scary is an odd word to use. But yeah it was the initial headline. Most aren’t like us weirdos on here who have more than a passive interest haha.
Clause 5.7.1 allows for a renegotiation if inflation spirals like before. That was the clause that was activated last time.
I am not sure if that’s what you’re referring to tho.
I see from Forsa that the local bargaining bit won't be decided until the end of June so we're expected to vote on the deal without knowing whether that 1% applies to us.
Are you in the Union?
Yeah I don't think they have thought out the finer details of this. They need to give a clear and concise breakdown of the actual rises that the different grades can expect.
I expect a minimum of 10.25 percent as was the headline figure given by Forsa. I don't pay my dues for misinformation.
Of course I am, since my first week in the CS, doesn't change the fact that it's full of those on the way out looking to shaft the next generation without a thought for the younger members of the PS/CS coming in...
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