How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
Why is only 5.7% more money in your pocket over the next 2 years a bad thing?
What's the equivalent inflation calculation?
A teacher on point 9 is on €54,374 today.
With increments, they will be on €58425 after two years. Apply the 9.5% increase at the time the deal expires sees an increase of €5,404 to €63,829
€54,374 today to €63,829 when the deal expires is an increase of 17%
If married to a spouse who's also a teacher, they'll also get an increase of 17%
So still not 25%?
And ignoring so many people not getting increments
Also ignoring that increments are part of an initial remuneration package which people budget for years in advance. They are not pay raises
I'm not that surprised the government caved in to the unions and gave such a big pay increase. My brother works in the public service and he and his colleagues are all delighted, cannot believe their luck. As you say, including increments it amounts to about 6% pay rise per year. Inflation now is 0%. A lot of things are falling in price. There is an election gearing up in a year. The politicians also find it easier to justify there own pay if the top people who work for them / in their departments are very well paid too, and not disgruntled.
1 month inflation between November and December was 0.5%. Prices on average increased by 0.5% in one month.
12 month inflation is 4.6%.
We don't know what inflation for January 2024. We don't know the Dec-Jan increase or decrease in prices, we do not know the 12 month inflation rate. We don't have any data points in 2024 so the rate is undefined (which is just easier to say 0 until we have such data point).
They can't use it for general increases this time. Only claims e.g. parity, job evaluation, review recommendations, etc.
In December Ireland had the fourth consecutive quarter of decline, meaning that the Irish economy is technically in recession. Back in November, Irish inflation dropped to 2.3%
Obviously if public sector pay increases 10.25% we can see that putting upward pressure on inflation again.
But hey, there is an election coming, the powers to be that make the decisions need the votes, and they are not worried if the 10.25% comes from cutbacks, further borrowing or increased taxation on everyone else.
So be it. Thats the facts.
So you cherry pick your inflation stats? Inflation in the last quarter does not mean that is the inflation rate. Inflation is typically reported over 12 months.
Inflation from November to December was 0.5%. so be it. Thats the facts.
https://visual.cso.ie/?body=entity/cpicalculator
Does your brother know how much you begrudge him a pay raise?
While there has been some contraction, we anticipate returning to growth this year. The quarterly was pretty interesting actually. You can find it here: https://www.esri.ie/news/domestic-economy-continues-to-grow-despite-gdp-contraction-in-2023.
Inflation has been higher than expected still. Some of the negative growth can be attributed to higher interest rates. As inflation reduces, the rates will likely be lowered again which will in-turn allow for more growth.
Think there's more factors than the election here tbh. It's generally accepted that the last deal left public servants worse off. This deal needs to go some distance to correct that. Unions are also in a strong position at the moment. Gov finances are strong and they know it. Hard for them to argue that the money isn't there. I recommend reading the first couple of bullets in this and previous agreements. Gives a good understanding of where the thinking is.
The people on here complaining about this deal were never going to be happy. 20% or 25% they'd have found a way to spin it negatively. My experience and time in the civil service has shown me that there are a minority of bitter people who always want to cause trouble. I do think they are more the old school heads though and are thankfully being retired out.
This is a good deal. Probably the best we could have hoped for. We knew it was always going to be in the middle of 8.5 and 12.5.
Prices are starting to come down. I have noticed it in terms of electricity and groceries for a start. Interest rates will follow shortly.
Yesterday was largely a good and positive day for us. The biggest increases I can remember in my 20+ years. And I have also seen a few dark days too. So I'm happy overall.
I think this deal will sail through in the high 80's to low 90's. That will back up what I'm saying.
I think he is a bit embarrassed having a six figure salary, security and pension for all he does - he admits himself he is overpaid. Obviously not everyone is in the same position- there is under-staffing in some areas, over-staffing in others.
And you would have happily lapped up 5% and called it gravy.
You always spin it to ignore what people are actually upset about, the timeline of this 9% raise in particular doesn't mention in your attack above
What % would you have been happy with?
Is 6 months really upsetting you that much?
If it troubles him too much he could always donate some of it back to the exchequer like some government ministers and TDs of various parties.
I'm sure you've already suggested as much given your concerns about how such pay rises are funded.
The government gets is money (to pay itself and its employees ie the public sector) from taxing others and from government borrowing. It does not go to a magic money tree.
The private sector gets its money by participating in the economy that exists because of the policies pursued by governments and implemented/delivered by the public sector. The economy doesn't just work like magic.
No, just a household where two people will each earn 17% more for doing absolutely nothing more than doing the same thing they do day in, day out today already.
Compare to the private sector, where pay rises will average 3.5 - 4%.
The morals of state employees really are lower than a snakes belly, targeting those than rely on state services particularly the vulnerable.
Apart from the low-level admins and the likes of HCAs and that, there's absolutely no justification bending over not once, not twice, but three times to unions. The middle and senior staff are not at all poorly paid compared to the vast majority of the country and have guaranteed job security on top of that and the middle grades work fewer hours per week.
One good thing about this deal is how much it winds the likes of you up 🤣🤣
As someone else said you have selectively picked a point on a pay scale. My turn. You could have picked point 16 on the teachers pay scale and they will earn 9.5% over the life of the deal. Which is comparable to the 3.5-4% figure you are quoting for the private sector.
I don't know why people still argue with @salonfire . He's probably one of those who got a 5% increase for sitting at home all day. We'll never know.
As for increments, why are they even been discussed. We get them irrespective of a pay deal.
I think it's a poor deal when compared to the above class of people.
The one constant on these threads throughout the years has been folk inventing brothers/friends/cousins to help their arguments. Ha ha
Well my brother told me you're the one making things up.
But you said 25%? Your illustrative point, which is false, only adds up to 17%, that’s some way off your claim of 25%… unless of course you’re now going to tell me that the increase is 17% plus 17% which is 34%?
Increments are nothing to do with this pay deal. It takes (up to) 18 years for a CO in the CS to get to their full salary, many other jobs start people on their real salary from Day 1.
What about revenue generating as well? Strange that’s always ignored…
I'll put money down, that inflation is not 0%
And your bet will be worth less, when it's time to collect. Well... because of inflation
I've already pointed out that inflation in November to December was 0.5% but theyve chosen to ignore it.
Inflation in the last quarter of last year was 0% and that's their justification. However, inflation is predicted to be 2.7% this year and they're choosing to ignore that. It's cherry picking stats.
Public sector pay doesn't have automatic increments either.
When I got increments it was following successfully completing 3 rounds of PMDS throughout the year, so definitely no such thing as automatic increments. Another myth..
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