How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
According to this article in the Independent, the deal is "well ahead of forecasted inflation"
(Paywall)
It'll be a 4 day week across both sectors.
The public sector generally leads the way with this sort of thing. Like flexi etc.
I would have no problem with that.
You’re actually making this ridiculously easy to tear your argument apart.
The public service is a meritocracy, join it if you think our T’s&C’s are so good?! Though from looking at your lack of grasp of basic maths I think it’s quite probable that you did go for a CO role but failed the Numerical Reasoning. (see your ludicrous comment on a family with two Govt workers being 25% better off! **snigger**)
Increments have nothing to do with this pay agreement. It’s a ridiculous situation whereby many Govt workers have to work for, at times, 18 years before they get to their correct level of pay that’s at the top of the increment scale. Increment scales are used throughout the private sector as well though this is another piece of logic that has passed you by!
It's a no from me, it's under 10% and over 2.5 years and not even front loaded to make up for the poorness of the last deal. I think it will be no from alot more than expected but will sadly still pass.
Id reckon it will be in the high 80's or low 90's.
This said, delighted for my lower paid colleagues, so when it does go through I can take a silver lining.
OK, so here's my analysis.
For my imaginary worker, I'll take an AP at the very beginning of their scale, and they will remain at the beginning of their scale for the entirety of this exercise (so increments don't inflate the change in pay based on each increase). I have also chosen an AP because they will get the percentage based increases, rather than the fixed figure where larger than the percentage increase (i.e. the increases which give a larger increase proportionally to lower paid public sector workers).
So, at the beginning of 2024, prior to this proposed deal, our fictional AP worker would have earned €75,822 per year. To begin with, we have to see what they would have earned in total in 2023. In 2023, there were 2 increases: 2% on 01/03/2023 and 1.5% on 01/10/2023. From this, we can work out that their pay prior to 01/10/2023 would have been €74701.48 (75822 / 1.015). We can then work out that their pay before 01/03/2023 would have been €73236.75 (74701.48 / 1.02). So, what can we glean from this? Well, in January and February, they would have earned €6103.06 (73236.75 / 12) per month. From March to September, they would have earned €6225.12 (74701.48 / 12) per month. And then from October to December, they would have earned €6318.50 (75822.50 / 12) per month. So 2 months (Jan + Feb) * 6103.06 + 7 months (Mar to Sep) * 6225.12 + 3 months (Oct to Dec) * 6318.50 is their total earnings for 2023. This totals €74737.46 for 2023.
Now that we have 2023's gross earnings, we can start working on 2024 onwards.
Assuming no pay deal whatsoever, our AP would have earned €75822 in 2024. This would be an increase of 1.45% ((75822 - 74737.46)/74737.46 * 100) over 2023, with no increase during 2024, all as a result of the staggered increase in 2023.
But what about when we factor in the proposed deal?
So from 01/01/2024, there will be a 2.25% increase, which will result in annual salary increasing to €77528. Then on 01/01/2024 there will be a 1% increase, to €78303.28 (77528 * 1.01). And finally on 01/10/2024, there will be another 1% increase to €79086.31 (78303.28 * 1.01). So for 5 months (Jan to May), our AP will earn €6460.66 (77528 / 12) per month. For 4 months, our AP will earn €6525.27 (78303.28 / 12) per month. And for 3 months, our AP will earn €6590.53 (79086.31 / 12) per month. This means their total pay will be €78175.97 (6460.66 * 5 + 6525.27*4 + 6590.53*3). This equates to increased gross earnings in 2024 of 4.6% ((78175.97 - 74737.46) / 74737.46 * 100) compared to 2023.
I need to pop out now, but if I get a bit of time later I'll come back and run the figures for 2025 and 2026 (and perhaps 2027, as the increases in 2026 will flow into 2027).
A good day for HEOs and above considering the increase and increments.
You cant just casually brush aside increments.
Getting mixed messages. I've been told by some that it's not for everyone. Maybe someone can clarify does it apply to all sectors and public servants.
Majority of workers don’t have their pay that kept up with inflation and it is not a bad thing when inflation is more than the 2% target. If it was the case, businesses would have to up their price further and the following year, you would be back to square one.
Nail on head.
No it doesn't, it is committed to by the govt in terms of the spend, but who receives it/ how it is divvied up is decided at a sectoral level e.g. it could be used to address pay inequality or other discrepancies/claims etc for a certain group of the unions want (e.g. lower pay for new entrants)
That's why it is really only 9.25 guaranteed (and possibly more for others) but from the govt perspective they will be paying 10.25
A general round increase isn't on the cards. It's specifically not allowed by the agreement. All public sector workers will be put into bargaining groups, like last time. Unions can use the pot for their group to solve claims. For example, the INMO and SIPTU both resolved something specific last time rather than giving general round increases.
I’ll be voting for this deal anyway. Staff in my office were generally positive about it, they just couldn’t see an offer much higher.
it does keep up with inflation. 10.25% is greater than the predicted inflation over the next 2.5 years.
It doesn’t address the previous deal which didn’t keep up with inflation as we’re currently 6.5% off.
For some workers earning below 50k, it will catch them back up due to the minimum salary increases.
As you said, it’s a passable deal. This will sail through imo.
how would a 4 day week work in schools or universities?
Let's see some calculations proving me wrong then so. Take an example of two teachers say in their early 30s who would be often used as a group struggling to pay childcare, mortgage, etc.
Show me how they are not close to earning 25% more at the end of the deal than they are today.
Explained here: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121003105#Comment_121003105
Overtime is not included.
When working hours and holidays are accounted for teachers would probably only work the same number of days as the rest of the public service doing a 4 day week.
Alternatively schools could do a 4 day week too, my former school is doing a half day Wednesdays at present.
Jesus, you can brush aside increments. The are one of the reasons the employers gets away with underpayment in the first place, are agreed at the start of the employment, and a MAJOR reason that we can't attract staff. No matter their experience, in the private sector, they start at the bottom. This is often far far below what their experience deserves or what's available elsewhere, without having to wait 10 years to still be paid less
What about universities? If someone tried to extend the semester, I’d vote to reject that deal. If someone tried to condense teaching to 4 days. I’d vote to reject that deal.
How would Garda? Nurses? Firefighters? Work where shifts are already long and they’re understaffed?
I don’t know why you expect me to be an expert in this area. My union has mentioned the 4 day week in recent years. I would be in favour with the idea as it would work in my job. I’ll leave the planning and implementation of any prospective future 4 day week to those with more expertise in these matters than me.
The point being, it’s not something for a pay deal. It can and should be negotiated locally. The pay deal is for the entire public sector. A 4 day working week has to be considered in a sector by sector basis.
It's a No from me as well. I don't think it's greedy to reject a deal which leaves me worse off in real terms after inflation across the whole period of the two agreements. 'Running to stand still' is hardly an extortionate demand. Is that selfish when some workers don't have that luxury? Yes, but I'm not going to apologize for it
I fully expect it to pass easily though, especially as the magic 'over 10%' figure is being (falsely) advertised.
Not always. A colleague (PS but not CS, but advertised as first point only) recently started here from a distant country - very experienced tangentially but not in the specific area of interest. Talked his way into second last point on the scale (above me the bollox but all power to him!) although even that was a significant pay cut.
My inlaws were telling me, no matter what I said, that I was getting a 12.5% payrise and, once I showed, them the actual figures they still were claiming a 10+% payrise. Couldn't comprehend it's staggered nature means that I won't see that raise for years, and that it's less than inflation will probably be
It's the vast majority of time though. I got in on point 3 only because I was an embedded contractor doing the same job.
Trying to recruit experienced people externally recently and no way were they getting above the ground floor
Ffs you cant. Payscales are important. Jesua christ. Some of the idiotic shite on this thread between inflation porn and people dismissing increments is plain moronic.
Id imagine they didnt stay long.
And how would you describe yourself? Misogynistic male middle management no doubt.
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