How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
Oh did you rejoin a Union in the last few weeks so? Surprised you're willing to part with the subs.
Especially after regaling us (multiple times) of how you dramatically left the Union because of PSEU members crossing a picket line.
It's a no for me then. I probably would have voted yes if that was included. Its too long for 9.25%. It prob will still go through. Alot may not realise they don't get that additional 1% and vote it through
There is no pension pot/paying in, ability to 'max out' contributions in the public sector.....in the same sense as in private pension schemes in general though.
It is likely that the percentages coming into the exchequer to pay public pensions will increase which isn't really an issue so long as the exchequer keeps taking in enough to cover this.
Exactly this. I'd vote no based on that alone. 10.25% I would have given a yes.
Ohhhh regaling.....Ohhh. You've a serious chip on your shoulder. As I've said I know the likes of you. Female middle management no doubt.
It's 9.25% the additional 1% apparently is not for everyone. Maybe more clarity can be given on that.
There is no 'fund' as such, it's a totally different financial instrument.
The deal will be presented in very clear terms to members, it's not really a matter of realisation.
Civil Servants trying not to spend their entire shift arguing on boards.ie about unions
I understand how it works.
You can rephrase it as "if there's an issue with..."
A Public Sector Pension is as close to guaranteed as you will get is my point.
Good point, I'm in the private sector so only have experience with co-workers desperate to fleece themselves as much as possible with voluntary contributions.
But what I said about pensioners having to stay longer on welfare/keep working after they retire still stands for the public sector.
He doesn’t understand maths either. Their total income will still only rise by the 10.25%.
And the point I am making is that the erosion of the pension scheme terms over the years has completely slipped off the table in these types of negotiations. Newer staff haven't really been compensated for the erosion of their terms or pre 04 ones for the erosion relative to pre 95.
your wages go from 100 to 120 by 2026
your shopping trolley goes from 100 to 130 by 2026.
But you have 20 euro extra in your account before you pull into dunnes so you are happy enough with that? I genuinely don't understand your logic
From my perspective, I joined after 2013. I signed up for the current scheme and I've seen zero erosion. I agreed to this when I signed up and the current scheme seems quite reasonable. A restructuring of the pension isn't something I think about.
edit: I've experienced zero erosion is a better sentence. I've seen the erosion but it predates me.
That's not the argument the original poster was making. The poster was making the argument that a 5% pay rise on July 1st is an effective 2.5% pay rise in the calendar year. I couldn't give a toss. I only care about the headline figure, I don't care how it breaks down over the course of the next 2.5 years (within reason).
The argument you're making is that a 10.25% pay rise over 2.5 years will be less than inflation over the same time period. I don't think that's true. (I'm ignoring the 6.5% outstanding already).
Your shopping is a percentage of your wages. Not the entirety of what you spend your wages on.
The example you game makes no sense and just shows that inflation doesn't effect your entire spending equally.
For context on a personal level, My shopping bill has gone down since 2019. Same for mortgage bill, thankfully in a lucky position not to need to rent. Two of my biggest outgoings have gone down since 2019. Some others have also gone down, some have gone up. I'd guess this is the same for everyone, but this whole inflation argument on an individualised basis doesnt make as much sense as soon seem tp think it does.
That's fine, not a priority for you. Do you feel like it is a poorer scheme relative to pre 2013 and as a general theme do you think it may be a factor in filling jobs in the PS?
Yes, it is a poorer scheme then before. Yes, I think improving the pension would encourage more people to join the PS.
If the Unions went off and fought for a better one, I'd be happy but its not something I would ever raise when they ask for my opinion. I'd likely just prefer a higher gross salary tbh.
Once more happy to correct my figures if anyone sees errors in them:
Under the new offer the increases each year are:
In 2026, the deal is only for 6 months, so it's effective 1% not 1.5%.
Where are you getting 3.83% for 2026 in the original deal?
I have 2025 @ 2.4% including the local bargaining element, but even so, it's so bad for 2025. Inflation won't be close to 2.0% in 2025 regardless of what the "experts" say. Another 2.5 years of pay cuts for public servants.
Does anyone think this pay deal will 1) attract people into the public sector, the gardai, the nurses, the teachers, the planners, the engineers etc the professions that are haemoragging staff the last 5 months, and, 2) stop teachers and nurses from emigrating to Canada, Middle East, Australia? The country wants a public sector to meet their demands but don't want to pay for it and don't see the value in it.
That the union don't communicate that its a 3.1% increase for 2024 (below predicted inflation), a 2.4% increase in 2025 (below predicted inflation) and 1% for half of 2026 (again, below prediced inflation) speaks volumes about their long-term intentions/goals of being in bed with the government and feathering their own nests into the future. The next few years, theis country is forecasting 50/60/70 billion in additional windfall tax revenues. The teachers, the SNA, the doctors, the nurses etc, they aren't even worthy of maintaining their standard of living in that time.
And yet, it's 10.25%........great deal.........the Union have done well.
Do those leaving to go to the private sector not also face the same inflation?
As I have shown before, teachers and Gardai are paid in the top 20% of all income earners in the country. The others you mention are probably not far off it either.
Private sector pay increase for 2024 will average 3.5% and don't have automatic increments.
Dry your eyes. You're not any worse off than the majority of people.
I suppose there's an environment called reality that these negotiations have to happen in.
One would hope that all workers might benefit from these tens of billions that are due to come in or that the infrastructure that oue country so badly needs is prioritised.
I used effective 1.5% because if you look at the pay adjustments, it includes a 1% from 1/1/26 & another 1% from 1/6/2023
The following is related to the previous offer so ignore if not interested.
You are also asking on where the 3.83% for the original deal for 2026 comes from
The detailed calculation for the 3.83% salary increase in 2026 is as follows:
One thing to note which I don't think you've taken account of, is that the 2024 % is bigger than it looks, because you're comparing "12 months of what salary would have been without any deal" vs the proposed deal, but to calculate the year on year change you really need to compare what someone would have earned in 2023 vs what they will earn under the new deal.
2023's earnings would have been lower than "2024 without a deal", because some of 2023 was lower (as some of the increases came in at various stages).
In the same way, you need to consider that in 2025 for example, January 2025 will pay more than January 2024, so even if 2025 had no increases, 2025 as a whole would have higher pay than 2024. Basically you're counting the part of the increase that occurs in year 2024, but not counting the part that flows into 2025.
If I have time later, I'll do a full workthrough, starting with 2023 as the start point
When you look at the reality is is not much better than what the union were outraged about a few weeks back.
it is 9.25 NOT 10.25
and 1% of that is at the end, so essentially only effective in the next agreement in terms of pay. Optics. the next agreement won't have an increase until late 2026 likely as the 1% in June will have only just been given.
So apart from the extra 0.75% now it's not any different imo - have the unions really gone from outraged to happy over an extra 0.75%? Very weak response. The 1% should have been copperfastened for everyone and not sectoral bargaining and then maybe it is worth talking about
How did you reach that conclusion? I'm not seeing this in the agreement.
What's a Garda's base pay?
Remove overtime as no one has their pay calculated with that included, except them for no biased reason at all I'm sure
This deal is passable but it is not a good deal. It’s the 2nd or 3rd pay deal that has not kept up with inflation. Coming after paycuts in 2010. It is going to make the public service less attractive. The next deal should focus on a 4 day week with no loss of pay.
4 day weeks, if/when they come, are likely to remove any idea of Saturday being a weekend day in terms of being guaranteed off, extra pay if working it etc.
It's not going to be a three day weekend or pick one of the midweek days off
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