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Child Item

No more parking spaces!

antodeco

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2024/0115/1426679-car-parking/

I don't really get this. They're assuming that people just want to have a house and commute to work, nothing else. Good luck doing a family shop on your bike! Having a potential blanket policy of no parking spaces in new housing developments would turn into an absolute disaster.

Now, the article says "on street parking" but most housing estates now don't give driveways either, as it allows the builder to build more houses (each saving of 1-2 metres per row of houses equates to an extra row of houses)

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gossamerfabric

provide the links from twitter if you can.

You could certainly do both with a Kei Car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKoiqQtz3gU

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641998#Comment_121641998

Eh, they ARE the links from Twitter:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641678#Comment_121641678

gossamerfabric

your link to twitter does not work.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121643157#Comment_121643157

Funny thing about that link.

It worked for me last night but won't today.

It's just a van going onto the wrong side of the road and crashing into a car.

Fairly scary and caught on dash cam so you can see it coming.

Not sure what its got to do with parking spaces.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121643209#Comment_121643209

Yes, it seems a bit inconsistent. Maybe this one will work better.

The link was presented in response to a suggestion that we can't use cargo bikes because sometimes they slip on ice. If that was the basis for decision making, we'd be getting rid of lots of our vehicles.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1079228702347718656

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121643343#Comment_121643343

That one is working fine, still scary.

Sure you could slip on ice walking anyway.

To get back to the parking spaces, will there be room for a cargo bike in these houses with no car parking ?

[Deleted User]

I've been thinking about this thread and it reminded me of something I had long forgotten about.

Until my mid-teens, I grew up in Darndale, in North Dublin, (before it was remodelled). That estate of 900 houses was originally built without front gardens or car parking at your door. We had one bus route, the 42, with a second, the 42c coming many years later. There were some areas provided for parking cars, but it was often a bit away from your house. Granted, back then car ownership was not as high as now, but I do remember some of our neighbours owning cars.

Homes were built in long rows or built around "courtyards" and had narrow lanes between them. Ambulances or any kind of deliveries (not food, as grocery delivery wasn't a thing, but furniture or large goods) could only come as close as the nearest parking area.

I remembered this, because at very young age (maybe 5?) I got severe pneumonia in both lungs, and a decision being taken not to risk moving me as they couldn't get an ambulance up close enough to the house. My GP at the time came to the house twice a day instead.

The house we lived in was one of those eventually demolished when the estate was remodelled and gardens and driveways created. (We had already moved long before then).

It seems to me that planning housing developments with little or no parking, could end up repeating some mistakes of the past.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121643943#Comment_121643943

Don't be daft, in the eyes of some, a cargo bike must take up zero space. Otherwise their whole "private property on public space" mantra becomes a fallacy.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121643943#Comment_121643943

I've no idea about the cargo bikes tbh. I've seen some new developments with specific space designated for a bike shed or lock-up area, not sure if any of them have gone as far as cargo bike parking. But I'm sure it's coming....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121644171#Comment_121644171

When you think about how far patients will travel on trolleys within a hospital campus, it's hard to understand why an ambulance crew couldn't get up the road.

2lazytogetup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121644171#Comment_121644171

Looks like a great place for kids, out playing with no cars bothering them

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121647273#Comment_121647273

It's probably something that needs to considered before we start "shrinkflation" for family homes.

A cargo bike takes up a fair bit of space and needs to get down the side of the house to be secure at night.

Also the kids who are raised in a cycling household will need space to keep their bikes which will be getting bigger as they grow.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121650619#Comment_121650619

Yes, certainly needs consideration, and is particularly a problem in terrace housing, and indeed in lots of semi-d housing, where the average back passage can't take a cargo bike. Bike bunkers in the front garden would be one option.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121650955#Comment_121650955

Some of the new developments I've seen have tiny strips of front garden with barely room for a couple of ordinary bikes never mind a cargo size bunker.

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121626610#Comment_121626610

Everywhere? 7 along a stretch with how many tens of thousands of people living in that area you highlighted? Gocar are very expensive when I looked at them, especially when you get beyond a set distance limit, hiring in general is not cheap, if anyone had to rent a vehicle on a regular basis it would make more sense financially to just buy a vehicle, which you then at least have for your use anytime you need it, and whatever it depreciates to, you still have that balance. Rental is expensive and for occasional use, but if you add the cost of alternating that with taxis (assuming they are even available), which they aren't, not even in Dublin, the availability is completely at the discretion of the service provider, plus the increase in inconvenience and added cost from limiting your options as to where you can purchase food, I say your costs will go up, substantially. Typically when people cant afford options, they pay a premium when they need any service.

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121630983#Comment_121630983

Can you not just do that online, by VR headset, stop being so difficult

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121647273#Comment_121647273

Only you would look to question what was a medical decision taken by a doctor, Andrew.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121650521#Comment_121650521

Lol, you should look up the history of the estate, before deciding it was a great place for kids.

Years later they undertook a massive redesign of the estate, including demolishing some homes, and reversing others (front of house became back of house) and retrofitting with front gardens and driveways - that should tell you something about how badly it was designed before.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121651835#Comment_121651835

Rental was surprisingly cheap last time I looked, €20-€30 per day for mid range car.

daheff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121636469#Comment_121636469

But it's already like that. And has been for along time.

Buying an apartment with a parking space vs none usually has an extra 10-20k cost on it.

Buying a house with a driveway vs on street parking...same house with driveway costs more.

People already pay more for parking space so this is just either political PR stunt pretending current reality is a new idea they dreamt up, or they are going to make things a lot worse for car owners.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121651479#Comment_121651479

I find I have to laugh at the very obvious double standard of some.

So providing enough land for front gardens in any plans for new housing developments to allow for "storage of your private property" in a bike bunker would be acceptable, but space to park a car, would not?

"What about the families that don't own any ~~cars~~ bikes?" "Why do they have to pay for that?" Comes to mind.

Most new developments I see around me don't have front gardens, and haven't for a long time (at least in Dublin) and parking is usually something like this arrangement - a parking bay, not a driveway.

I have a Keter store-it-out myself in my back garden for my lawnmower and gardening stuff, and it takes up a fair amount of space. I'd imagine a bunker large enough for storing a couple of adult bikes + a cargo bike, (as someone on the thread mentioned their family had), would take up a significant bit of room.

The difference between that and a parking bay would most likely be insignificant, but no doubt someone will whip out their measuring tapes and let us know why one is okay, but not the other.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654163#Comment_121654163

I'm trying to take on board your contribution but I find I'm confused by some of it.

Is it me or an. other that you think has double standards ?

Are the bits in quotations attributed to me or someone else ?

If you get a chance maybe you could clarify ?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654546#Comment_121654546

I quoted you post because you mentioned houses being built without front gardens in response to another post, to highlight that I was referencing that point.

I have edited the post to clarify - only you know if you have double standards, but there are some here that most definitely do, and car parking is frequently referred to as "storing your private property" by them on this forum.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654600#Comment_121654600

It seems you have a problem with someone else then.

I have had several discussions with people who use the "parking/storage" line.

I disagree with them.

Of course I don't have double standards, but then if I did I'd hardly admit it 😊

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121652507#Comment_121652507

I thought so too, but if you go over a set mileage limit it starts going up in price per km (although I was only looking at vans), which can be a substantial increase in price, so it may seem reasonable if your journeys are within their Ts&Cs. I prefer to not limit my needs to the Ts&Cs of a business, and similarly the alternative I went for, seemed a better and reasonable price initially, but thats the price offered, it seems typical for that not to be the end cost. So, I dont believe what is displayed as the price may necessarily mean thats what it ends up as. You also have to be hyper vigilant and very wary of getting stung for costs, in 2 recent instances where I needed a van,the marked damage was different to what was on the vehicle, some damage wasn't readily apparent (different vehicles have their own design creases). While it may have been genuine, it's all well and good them being casual/lax about damage, because if it is not documented, the renter could very likely be paying. I did a walk around and insisted the staff do one with me as I had noticed differences to the marked damage, in both instances, they didnt seem to bothered, maybe as I'd paid an excess to cover all damage (another extra cost), and either they didn't care or could get damage fixed easily on my fee??. It could easily get very expensive, sometimes upwards into the thousands at a minimum if you dont pay for all damage coverage (or whatever it is called), they can have a hold of on your CC account. It's not all as straightforward or cheap as you are making it out, and with the extra charges, I dont think it works out as cheap as running a car. I have only gotten vans that I needed the volume to move some things.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655409#Comment_121655409

My enquiries were for personal use, not business. They all seemed to offer unlimited mileage (kilometerage?).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121654163#Comment_121654163

It's a wild guess, but could the double standards jibe just possibly be referring to myself?

Yes, cargo bikes are quite large, but you'd still get at least two, possibly three, maybe four such bikes in the space for a car, so they are a lot less of an imposition space wise. More importantly, they're an awful lot less of an imposition environment wise, in terms of the environmental cost to manufacture, operate and dispose, which is probably the key reason why we need to roll back on encouraging and enabling car-centric lifestyles.

So that's the difference.

Leg End Reject

https://www.gocar.ie/1659105794610/rates/

Smallest car is €50 per day up to 50km, add in 50c per km after that.

Not really an option for those who need to travel every day or long distances for work, neither is a cargo bike.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655524#Comment_121655524

Agreed.

They are more aimed at someone who only occasionally needs a car.

Something like once a month would make financial sense given the high standing costs of car ownership.

Motor Tax, NCT, Insurance, car loan etc.

Then you can add in repairs, servicing, tyres etc.

Cargo bike not suitable for long commute either.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655447#Comment_121655447

Glad you outed yourself there 🙂

I was getting it in the neck which is ironic when we argued several times on that issue.

FWIW I agree with your remarks about the sustainability of cargo bikes.

However I'm still concerned about whether we are planning ahead for where they can be kept.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655704#Comment_121655704

Exactly if the plan is to build new apartment complexes without parking facilities where does one park the beloved cargo bike? I think its crazy not to build underground parking / storage for private goods with any multi story accommodation. It's not like you can retrofit it after. Alternatively if it's considered prohibitively expensive to build underground, then make the ground floor the space for storing private goods or bins etc. It appears to me that the unbridled hatred for private cars could result in certain people shooting both their feet off 😀

MightyMunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121621317#Comment_121621317

Maybe you wouldn't choose to live there then, like if you needed your own workshop or massive shed you wouldn't expect to fit it in an apartment.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656443#Comment_121656443

like if you needed your own workshop or massive shed you wouldn't expect to fit it in an apartment.

I've no idea why you quoted me to say this, my posts here don't mention a workshop or shed, massive or not.

I don't think anyone else's did either. Might come in handy though for storing cargo bikes!