How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
Well the salary increase in the example you gave there would be a 5.875% increase overall relative to January 1st 2024.
I understand the point you're making but I do not accept it for one very simple reason - the total gross salary of every public servant (i.e. figures in their pay packets) will increase by only 1.75% in 2024 and 3.2% in 2025. That is a mathematical fact.
You cannot have your cake and eat it. This is why government pay in small amounts over long periods - they overall headline figure is much larger than the true actual figure. In the end you have to take a reference point and January 1st 2024 is that reference point because a new deal should have started by then.
A 3.5% pay rise (in the current deal for 2024) can only be claimed to be a 3.5% rise if it is back dated to January 1st 2024.
I know people working in the private sector who get pay increases and/or bonuses as a percentage of their salary at one particular point. Their salary jumps the percentage they state it jumps. People on welfare get their increases on January 1st. When the minimum wage increased by 12% on January 1st it was a genuine 12% increase. So why then are public servants screwed around with promises of tiny pay rises two/three years down the line which the media add up TODAY and claim it to be a much bigger increase than is the reality.
What if anything has been the SF response to the proposed deal?
I'm a lower grade and I need the money. Just scraping by at the moment and a day off would be me sitting at home because I can't afford to do anything. Genuinely considering leaving because the job pays so little.
You should stop using calendar year figures because they don’t reflect reality. If your salary increases by 10% in December 2024 and another 10% in December 2025, you would say your salary increased 0.83% in 2024 and the same 2025.
What matters is getting the increase 1. at the same interval every year (or at least, not pushing for later months) and 2. with a percentage you are happy with.
I think you’re reading that wrong.
4.6% isn’t the “month on month increase”. Prices did not increase that much from November to December. It compares the prices of goods from December 2023 to December 2022. The CPI is the inflation measure in Ireland.
Whats written below and the 6.3% you’re referring to is the average when you look at January 2023 to 22, Feb 23 to Feb 22, March 23 to March 22 etc. ie averaging these numbers over the year. That is an interesting figure but not the official inflation rate. It’s not a measure of anything meaningful.
I am assuming the inflation rate for a year is Jan 1st to Jan 1st and hence we don’t the inflation rate for 2023 yet.
My point stands.
4.6% is a month on month increase.
If you read down through your own link there it states the following:
The annual average rate of inflation in 2023 was +6.3%. This compares to an increase of 7.8% for 2022 and an increase of 2.4% for 2021.
The largest year-on-year price increase was recorded in February 2023 when prices rose by 8.5% compared with the previous February.
The largest price increases were recorded for Housing, Water, Electricity, Gas & Other Fuels (+15.6%), Food & Non-Alcoholic Beverages (+9.8%), Restaurants & Hotels (+7.8%) and Recreation & Culture (+7.8%).
Now I don't think a 1.75% pay increase in 2024 and a 3.2% increase in 2025 is going to be enough.
4.6% is the latest figure from the CSO as far as I am aware:
What figure are you working off?
Work to rule would be more effective than strike action imo. Work to rule can go on much longer.
If the government are hell bent of giving public servants an effective paycut by offering a much lower than inflation increase. Then I don’t see any issue with workers returning the favour with an effective productivity cut.
What do you think inflation for 2023 was?
The rises should only be accepted if they start on Jan 1 of each year. (back dated for 2024) Additional annual leave should be sought for lower grades also. Additional leave could also keep the percentage rises low for headlines. Can't see there being much uproar for a couple of days tbh.
Non necessarily, this pay rise is a necessity to offset the cost of living increases due to inflation. It’s not a gift.
1.75 + 3.2 is greater than inflation from 2023. You’re stats are clear and don’t tell the story you’re trying to tell.
Its disappointing because it’s not hard to use the figures and tell an equivalent story that is correct.
Those on welfare are more likely to vote SF. Those working in the public sector are more likely to vote FF/FG. That'd be their (FF/FG) logic.
you must have replied to my comment by accident there.
The stats are clear. They're giving a 1.75% pay rise for 2024, a 3.2% pay rise for 2025 and an undefined pay rise for 2026.
These are all effective pay cuts as they don't go anywhere near addressing inflation from 2023.
infinite social welfare for people who have no interest in working buys votes, paying public workers properly doesn't
I can see moves being made to issue ballots from next week if there is no movement. Seems to be a growing sentiment that people are gearing up for strike action.
I’d agree with that prediction.
Work harder to earn less, is that what you want?
The last deal was a pay cut, even after it was revised.
The next deal is almost certainly going to be another pay cut.
We can't keep going on like this.
So basically where we are at is the WRC asked the Unions to give the Government time to reflect on the rejection of the initial pitiful offer and minimal improved offer. There's no set date I presume, just waiting on the Government to drag their heels again back to the WRC. Surely if there is no offer this week, or if there is and that offer is rejected as well, the ballots should be sent to members shortly after.
And on top of that....as has been said already why didn't they apply tye same logic to minimum wage and social welfare....they will put just as much if not more pressure on SMEs ...they didn't appear to give two solitary fooks then!
Don't think that's part of any deal.
Why would productivity rise?
So will productivity rise with this paydeal? Ya'll gotta give something back in leiu of the haddington road hours?
Look what happened with the large but very necessary pay increases that came about through Benchmarking. Those increases were utterly essential but still get talked about as reckless.
And those very pay increases were wiped out FEMPI measures not long afterwards.
That part is often conveniently forgotten in any discussion about benchmarking.
They gave it with one hand, but took it away with the other.
Last I checked the shinners where not in Government,the unions need to get the ballots out they have to give notice to do this then more notice if there to strike which gives plenty of time to run the public service employees down throught the media ,saying where looking for to much with the cost of inflation going down.
You can see this allready with the bollox pascal going to the papers straight after the last round of talks.
There’s no election looming in the immediate future. Your logic makes no sense. A snap election is incredibly unlikely.
Id prefer to deal with SF than FG. That’s coming from someone who would never vote for either.
Government have the upper hand
Do the unions really want to be negotiating with Sein Fein after an election where they are promising "change"
And going by the mess up in Stormont the unions must be nervous
Yeah fair enough the reasoning shouldn't be our problem I agree. Yeah 10% over 2 years is what I’m thinking could be arrived at.
It’s their reasoning that I’m calling out in that they’re saying it’ll possibly be used as a benchmark for future private sector pay increases. That’s not our problem.
This Govt would never give us a 15% pay increase. Look what happened with the large but very necessary pay increases that came about through Benchmarking. Those increases were utterly essential but still get talked about as reckless. At the time people were leaving the CS in droves to take up all sorts of (less specialist) jobs in the private sector at much higher wages, we were haemorrhaging staff yet it was portrayed as an ATM pay increase since.
10% over 2 years would sail through with people very happy about it.
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