How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
Yes the government`s recent bond auction was a success. The government got it`s money. The pension funds got their bonds. If inflation turns out to be low, going forward, the government should be able to keep up payments and the fund managers will be happy. Certainly government and ECB projections are for low inflation and why wouldn`t they be, you won`t sell many bonds if you tell them inflation is going to be high. But assuming the government and ECB really think inflation is heading lower, are they right?
The evidence suggests enough fund managers believe them to buy their bonds but the market sentiment suggests a slight majority are now not in agreement with the ECB and governments like ours. If inflation increases, the funds that bought the bonds will start losing money in real terms. The cost of borrowing will increase for the government and if the bond holders cut their losses and bail out early, all hell will break lose.
It wouldn`t surprise me if the IMF were back in Ireland within two years.
I feel if they up it to 10%, with say 3% March, 1.5% october,2.5% March, 1.5% October, 1.5% March it would pass no bother. Wish they'd hurry up and get an offer that we can even vote on.
Comparing things is looking at the differences and similarities, it's not saying they are the same
Comparing the north’s public service situation to ours is ill-informed.
TDs are not public servants, they are public representatives.
Of course they did.
They had to unless they were members of a union on strike on the same day. CPSU did exactly the same when PSEU was on strike.
BTW CPSU were NOT the lowest paid workers in the civil service! Won't somebody think of the service officers and cleaners... ah but they don't count do they? 🙄 (there is still a few cleaners about who are civil servants, not contractors)
I'm sure there were those saying that in the North too. You'd wonder why they bothered to join a union at all.
I think if they tack on half a percent and reduce it to a two year deal it will pass. It won't satisfy everyone but it will pass nonetheless. The biggest issue was how little was on offer for the first year. People need increases now.
True, a strike is a long way off (and still unlikely). However, there is a process in advance of strike and they are the type of deadlines I'd expect the unions to be setting.
For instance, weren't the unions "poised" to ballot for strike action if no deal was reached?
There is no deal. The government is not at the table. Where is the ballot that proves the unions will put their money where their mouth is?
So are you talking about the size of our national debt, like you were before, or bond yields?
Bond yields change all the time (and are strongly affected by interest rates, govt bonds are a less attractive investment when rates rise) but that has no effect on the size of our national debt.
Governments sell bonds all the time, usually to refinance other bonds which have matured.
The idea that the Irish Government is going to have any difficulty at all selling bonds and at a low yield too is nonsensical. It's not 2010.
None of this is at all relevant to the pay talks.
Yes. Contractors are not part of this negotiation and not affected by it.
You wouldn't expect members of a different union not on strike to not cross your picket either. Before the merger PSEU and CPSU were rarely on strike on the same day so had to cross each other's pickets.
Saying that some union you're not a member of is on strike will cut no ice with HR, whether you could have joined that union or not.
A strike, which I still don't think is likely, is still several weeks away. Members have to be balloted and strike notice issued. You're talking mid-February. Any deadline given before the first strike day would be artificial.
He has said there is room for negotiation. He basically said he’d raise it but he had to be careful to deal in absolutes without being back at the talks at the WRC.
I read that article linked above, interesting. I have a question though... given the rigid hierarchy in most public/civil service jobs, does it not create problems when one grade is given more of an increase than others?
Surely there needs to be a substantial differential in roles/grades. Otherwise, what's the point in doing a more challenging role for, relatively, less pay?
The unions need to give a deadline and stick to it. Each time the government offers a crumb the union back down say they'll wait.
If the government truly thought the unions were about to go on strike a deal would be done with 24 hours.
looks strike edging closer as donohoe hasnt raised offer
Absolutely, two situation on no way comparable.
PS got pay increases every year the last 3 years, a lot in PS up north did not.
I personally think your line of thinking is way off the mark. We will find out soon enough though. Just from an extremely brief look, teachers up north haven’t had a pay rise in 3 years. Civil servants got 2% in 2022 , zero in 2023. They are all being paid less than their Uk counterparts. It’s just not the same situation at all hence why I don’t see it affecting us at all. They have literally been offered a fund to use for pay rises and they can’t accept it. Could you imagine if that happened here? Course there’d be a strike. Seems silly posters here claiming they are “braver” than us. Source https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-67957902.amp
A push with a cattle prod ! One hundred and fifty odd thousand people , a few miles away , didn’t go to to work today . That is unprecedented.
Im surprised that our unions didn’t advocate that PS workers here make some token gesture in support of their Northern counterparts .
The longer the Government hold off on a decent pay rise the most emboldened the PS Union members will become . I have enough experience of unions and also the impotency of some of them to know.
They'll make a better offer , they’ve already said they would. Their reasoning’s for making a better offer will in my opinion be a combination of the fact they can afford to , and the fact they won’t want public sector unrest in general but especially around an election.
Is that because you think the government will surely make a better offer in an election year or because you think Unions will accept the current offer?
8.5% over 2.5 years seems pretty poor by any private sector metric.
I’d be pretty sure there won’t be a strike. I don’t think today makes a difference other than it might give the Irish government a push.
I wouldn’t be so sure. Especially after today .
It operates according to DPER's Blended Working Framework for the civil service, and according to my departments own WFH policy which is based on that.
Many years ago, I was a salaried full-time employee of a company that was contracted to a semi-state. Said semi-state had multiple division go on strike over the time I worked there
We were told, by the company that actually employed me, never to cross a picket. And even when WFH was possible - this was well before the pandemic - there was nothing to actually do, due to the rest of the work that those on strike did being required for the any bit of the company to function.
Who would go on strike for contractors?
I'd agree.
Once a strike was over, if the employer were to not renew contractors who didn't cross the picket, they'd be looking at another strike on their hands.
And I am very experienced in tenders and public procurement.
Again, not trying to be rude, but why is this our problem? We have enough of our own.
You seem more invested in fighting their corner and protecting the employment of these people rather than your own colleagues pay and conditions, at this stage.
Most contractors that work alongside public servants are on many multiples of what the PS employees are on. Yes the work is piecemeal but when there is plenty of it, like at the moment it’s not a bad gig.
In my opinion, most would not cross a PS Union picket if the Union cause was anyway coherent.
Struggling with cleaners (cafe/shop seems fine) all the time around our place. We have to have meetings with the contract companies quite a bit. Really nice, and I'd not deny any of them a pay day, particularly when they are on lower pay than our permanent lowest paid. Some of them have ported over into permanent roles in technical services, they won't cross the picket, nor will they be reported to HR for not doing so. As the person who would be checking won't cross and therefore cannot possibly confirm 🤣
I work with enough and there are plenty to be had. It's the very top consultants who are hard to replace
https://m.independent.ie/business/jobs/room-for-negotiation-on-29bn-public-sector-pay-offer-paschal-donohoe-says/a1524040980.html article says an hour ago but I feel like I read it last week. Maybe they did a small edit or maybe I’m going mad.
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