How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
They're very worked up in NI at the moment. Might even force the DUP back to government. Will it go that far here I wonder?
LOL, alot of you clearly don't deal with any of the lower paid private workers through companies. They are struggling to fill positions, none of them are getting fired if they don't cross a pocket but they also aren't getting slack from most if they do as they don't get paid and many are barely above minimum wage. Let them go in and have a doss day, the actual work in the building still doesn't get done.
Not sure how WFH works in your Department/Office but there are no agreed WFH patterns in mine - it is completely flexible as long as you do your x days per week in the office. Anyway, it 100% won't come to a strike so nothing to worry about.
They are on short term rolling contracts, even with the parent company, or are independent contractors
It's very easy to not renew.
I actually work in this sphere. I've seen how easy it is to get rid of a contractor
Employment legislation means it's not that easy for private companies to let people go.
Civil and public servants owe no more to protect employees of private companies, than they owe us.
Look, I agree with many of your posts, but I think you're over-reaching on this point.
When? I said that I told contractors, in my dept, that I wouldn't hold it against them to pass.
I've had a union steward tell ME that it was OK to go into the lab, if a strike was coming.
So our strike is not their problem. We shouldn't be asking them to risk their employment, and they would be.
If they don't come in, as requested by the client, the client can request a new person.
It literally is not.
It is a matter between them and their employer.
You said that you were giving them a day off so they wouldn't have to come in.
So you're happy for people to be let go, for our picket?
It is when, should they not come in, they can be told not to return to that position. Contracting company will send someone else.
Most of those lads are on rolling temp contracts and can be fired for not going in. They have not served strike notice or engaged in any IA.
To flip your comment around, our strike has nothing to do with contractors of any description, be they cleaners/IT/kitchen
Contractors passing a picket is no worse than the pseu passing the cpsu picket. That was shocking.
Whi was giving them the day off? What are you talking about?
It seems to me like you're talking about employees of private companies who hold public contracts.
If they are directed to cross a picket (or refuse to cross a picket), that is a matter between them and their employer - the company who pays them.
It is not a matter for the Dept or Public Service body that is paying their company.
I didn't ask what they CAN do. I asked you what staff manager, who was apparently quite happy to give the contractor a day off, is then going to have the same guy fired?
I earn a lot more than my northern counterpart. Nothing to do with courage.
I'm actually looking north and wishing we had that level of courage
The company can easily rewuest a different one. I've literally seen it happen for one who the internal HSE manager just didn't like.
Replaced the next day.
You're, literally, talking about an area of employment you have no idea about.
Every low level contractor is immediately expendable, mids are easy enough to replace with time (let their term end and not renew), very very few "consultants" are critical
There is not going to be a strike. The government need to ever so slightly strengthen their offer and that’s it done. There is an absolutely shag all appetite for a strike.
And if he respects the picket, who's going to decide to fire him?
If they get told that a contractor is to come in the contractor has to come in.
You're the one saying that they have a choice to not come in.
You've never been a contractor, have you?
PFH will do exactly what the staff manager tells them. What staff manager (who apparently had authority to tell the contractor not to come in) is going to tell PFH to terminate the contract of a trained, effective contractor?
Extremely bluntly, if someone is on a service desk contract for 25k in this economy, they're an idiot.
You'll get closer to 30 and be staff anywhere - absolutely bloody anywhere - at this stage.
Nobody should be working as a contractor on a service desk unless they're being paid 1.5x+ what you'll get as staff somewhere else. Nobody should be working as a contractor anywhere unless they're on 1.5x+ what staff get actually; you are foregoing so much in rights and protection.
Some earn that much many don't. Most IT contractors people interact with don't.
Your typical IT service desk contractor is on a temporary contract with, say, PFH. They're earnining 25 to 35k on a rolling 6 month contract.
If they refuse to go in PFH will fire them or not renew at the end of 6 months, whichever is easier for the company.
Will you give a crap if that person loses their low paid job because they refused to go in? Would you even know?
The guys on bigger money? What company is going to use them in a PS tender, if they've had a contract cancelled by a PS organisation?
Stop thinking that people who are NOT public sector employees, involved in a dispute, must stay away.
Should cleaners, who are contracted in, not clean hospitals or should they risk their near minimum wage jobs?
In assessing 'most insecure', you seem to have left out the financial security bit. These folks are taking out 2x or 3x the wages of the civil servants working beside them. They've deliberately chosen the self-employed/contractor route, usually for the tax benefits available to them. They're also working currently in a sellers market, where if they are half-decent, they will be in huge demand.
So tell me please, who exactly is going to decide to terminate or not renew their contract?
Equally, the contractors don't give a crap about what the civil servants are being paid.
The nature of being a contractor, means it's not permanent employment, and they are well compensated for this. The contractors I deal with on a daily basis are being paid multiples per day of any of the civil servants they are working with, so I'm not exactly sympathetic.
They absolutely would not be terminated for not crossing a picket, and if submitting a tender for a new contract, it would not come into consideration. There are very strict (and transparent) procedures involved in assessing tenders and awarding contracts.
So while they are perfectly entitled to protect their own employment, it doesn't make it morally right to cross a picket when it involves workers who are taking action to improve their working conditions.
So, if they cross the picket, so be it. But if that results in some cooler office relationships later on, well, they also have to accept that.
No, the don't come crying, ever. They can and should protect their employment because no permanent employees will give a crap when their contract is not renewed and no union can ever counter non renewal
Them joining the union is as useless as when you see unemployed people being asked to join SIPTU.
You talk about people needing to protect each other but immediately want to sacrifice the most unsecure people you work with?
Stop
We're obviously reading different threads on the pay talks 😁
That's their choice, right? To be self employed with all the tax benefits that go with it?
And then they come crying to the unions to help them out?
I don’t think they get the concept.
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://w1.vanillicon.com/v2/196803dfa0698243a1e4321ab9efd141.svg)
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://wd.vanillicon.com/v2/dbd35c43580ff62b54e9919958f2a898.svg)
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://www.boards.ie/applications/dashboard/design/images/banned.png)
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://wd.vanillicon.com/v2/d38dadd4e9049f636f3a15f844846484.svg)
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://w0.vanillicon.com/v2/0e54e8024b002427df3ce2953d22b721.svg)