How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
Uhuh too much work you say. Easier to just pay everyone loads instead. How very public sector champagne communist of you.
Ant yet not only does the entire private sector do just that, but also New Zealand does this for their public sector!
And we all always reminded that how Ireland should emulate NZ (and the Nordics etc.) but Im sure you'd disagree in this area.
there are 4000 schools in Ireland (approx). That means there’s 4000 line managers. How would you manage that?
Try draw an organisation chart for the public sector. Then try and work out how each sector and subsector would negotiate their wage budget. You’ll very quickly see it’s impractical.
You keep saying the private sector does this. Draw an organisation chart for a private sector company. Even a large one. It should become very apparent how that’s easier to manage.
The main difference with a private company is that they actually have to worry about where the money comes from or they go bust. Private companies cannot take out Troika loans and sell off the nations infrastructure to keep spending massive amounts on unneccessary/inefficient staff and retirees on colossal pensions and lump sums.
The state can, and indeed did. Buying votes is expensive, luckily they can legally tax other people to do so!
So you just want to now randomly reply to posts instead of keeping it somewhat orderly.
Im gonna stop derailing the thread. I think it’s impractical, you don’t. Fair enough.
I meant he hasn't got the balls to turn up and make the 1.75% offer for 2024 himself.
Companies with 100k+ employees are simple org structures?
Stop talking about things you've never experienced
Its pretty simple actually, the principal and VP interviews teachers and gives them a year contract. Their performance can be assessed during the year and an appraisal at the end of the year. If they arent happy with the offer they can try another school. It's not that hard. Every Irish SME does this, there are very few unions that can actually set pay scales in the private sector. The only other way it happens is via statutory minimum wage increases.
You insisting the the public sector, with its 25% middle managers in the biggest employer (HSE) wouldn't be able to set individual contracts is absolutely hilarious.
What % of staff make up middle management in the private sector do you reckon, from the smallest to the largest none come close to the amount of paper pushers in our beauracracy democracy.
You want teachers to be hired on yearly contracts? Ok….
Where did I say they were simple structures???
Again, you both think it’s practical. I don’t. I’ll leave it there.
Yes I think the public sector should in fact be appraised constantly for perfomance, and it happened before the recession as well, hence the "nua" in An bord snip nua, the previous one happened almost 20 years before that.
People shouldnt be taxed to the hilt so the public sector can continue to live gilded lives doing nothing of benefit for the public they serve in name only.
Its a thing called value for money on the taxes I am forced to pay.
Good stuff, you’re one of them.
You think it’s practical. I don’t. I’ll leave it there. Nothing to do with the pay talks.
Of course isn't practical.
Some of the posters are either arguing in bad faith or maybe betraying a lack of real world cop on.
Crossing the picket isn't the problem.
Working with colleagues afterwards who know that you crossed the picket is the problem.
It wasn’t a one year offer. I’d have thought you’d know that at this stage.
I think that really depends on the strength of the reasoning for a strike. Striking that an 8.5% pay rise isn’t enough probably isn’t going to invoke too much passion to be perfectly honest. I would say there is a 1% chance of a strike. Possibly less.
If you think the public sector does nothing of benefit for the public then you are simply a moron.
Please don't peddle that myth about the reduction in pay scales for new entrants.
These reductions were imposed unilaterally by government, they were never negotiated or agreed with unions.
RTE is not as such part of the public sector and not part of this pay agreement. You have a remarkable record of spouting utter nonsense on public sector threads.
In related news.
Northern Ireland's public sector has completely shut down, for strike.
Hopefully it sharpens the minds of our lot.
I remember a discussion about twenty years later, suggesting that they still remembered exactly who the strike breakers were, and treated them accordingly.
and that’s a shocking behaviour tbh.Nothing to be proud of. If an employer treated striking employees “accordingly”, they would all ask for legal actions and rightly so.
Don’t do what you would not like others do to you. Just respect everyone.
Totally agree with you, very bad behaviour, who wants to work with colleagues like that. Everyone has freedom of choice, respect to whichever way they swing
If I was a scab, undermining the work of my colleagues to achieve better conditions for all, I'd expect to be treated like a scab.
Crossing a picket is never something I would do under virtually any circumstances.
If a worker wants to cross the picket, I respect their decision to do so. They can respect my decision to act professional with them in work but not a jot more.
Crossing a picket is the lowest of the low in my eyes.
You think giving large public sector pay rises buys votes? I don’t.
I actually think they lose more votes by doing it cos Irish Independent readers (like yourself) get whipped up and angry over it and so don’t vote for them.
Our public service is a mess across the board at the moment and pay is a huge reason for that.
I've made contractors pass the picket, to be honest. They didn't want to but I was aware that they were in a precarious position, for breach of contract, if they did not sign in
Well . . . The deal collapses after the offer from the first year as far as I'm concerned. 1.75% is a real terms pay cut. We are still taking pay cuts .... fifteen years on from the economic collapse of 2008.
You can't 'make' other humans do anything. You may have given them an instruction, but it's their choice whether to follow and their responsibility to deal with the outcome.
All of my Dept's contractors are technically sole traders and self-employed and decide what days they work, so can easily avoid strike action by working around them. In fact, they don't even have desks, since Covid.
I doubt any of them would pass a picket, (but couldn't guarantee it).
One metric the government has it`s eye on is inflation and the impact pay rises may have on prices. What I look at is the national debt and more specifically, it`s direction. Right now, it seems to be falling but at a very slow pace. This indicates the markets believe inflation is more likely to rise than to fall. The ECB on the other hand has indicated it is prepared to yield to the will of governments, the markets and anyone with a debt and will probably cut interest rates in the summer. But if it does, and if the markets are right on inflation, any cut in interest rates will spur further inflation and result in a fall in living standards as pay rises will be wiped out by rising prices. Maybe, cutting expendature is the way to go.
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