If its a Boeing, I ain't going.
https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/656760-alaska-airlines-737-900-max-loses-door-flight-out-pdx.html
An unrelated issue but more bad news for Boeing when it can ill afford it.
Cockpit window cracked, no loss of pressure and nothing other than an abundance of caution in the return to base. Airframe in question, is a 737 Max 8 apologies, as @john boye has pointed out, it's a 737-800 (NG) and not a Max.
Bravo 👌 a point well made 😉
On the contrary! The world's dumbest genius knows a thing or two about poor build quality.
https://electrek.co/2024/01/12/tesla-cybertruck-delivered-ridiculous-body-defects/
In a tweet that should surprise noone. Elmo has decided the decline in Boeing's engineering standards and QA are down to DEI being foisted upon them. Rather than chasing a bottom line. Just to highlight, the "evidence" Elmo relies on here, that a bonus for hitting DEI targets was introduced in 2022? Ignores literal decades at this point, of QA decline.
That anyone ever ascribed genius to the man? Well if nothing else, his last 2 yrs on Twitter/X have surely put paid to that. It is amazing what being in possession of sufficient capital/credit and the right place and right time can achieve.
Indeed, however I'd expect those odds to change drastically if some key companies are allowed continue to let safety standards, quality control and general good practice that has been learned at the cost of thousands of lives over the decades slip to the extent that Boeing has.
Bolts or screws on aircraft should never work themselves loose if they are "safety'ed". By that I mean secured with lock wire, split-pins or other locking mechanism. Never on friction alone. Especially a part that cannot be seen.
It's shocking that Boeing allowed an aircraft to be delivered in that state.
I'm just choosing not to fly on a plane built by a company that deliberately put a plane in the air with a lethal fault.
Every single plane in the world “may not have been put together properly “.
Will you just walk everywhere?
I'm not going to willingly hop on a plane that may not be put together correctly.
Heard this one before on a podcast. Statistically you can pick out any child you like walking around any UK airport you like and there’s more chance of that random child becoming UK Prime Minister than you being in a crash.
Fair enough, I hope your trip goes well.
The way I see it though, is, until enough people say, 'no, I won't fly Boeing until there is root and branch reform.' Things won't change.
I don't want to ask myself as I board, 'is this plane bolted together properly?' I just want to worry about mundane things like, will we get there on time etc.
No bother,I am looking forward to flying on one next week,I won't be doing the lottery,I would think I have a better chance of a substantial win than dieing on a Boeing but each to their own.
I invariably fly economy class, occasionally economy plus. What I won't do is fly on a Boeing jet. Their response to those horrific crashes has been disgusting. This latest episode hasn't helped with that impression. As people have said, we'd be having a totally different conversation if that plug had blown off at 20,000ft or 30,000ft, but it didn't so the incident is almost minimised as 'nothing to see here, nobody died, so that's ok.'
There are conversations about the Boeing stock price and this upcoming investigation by US authorities. That doesn't inspire confidence. They can't even listen to the voice recorder! What a great start!
I wonder are these working themselves loose even after they are tightened properly in the factory. Boeing are have really made idiots of themselves the last few years.
this latest doesnt exactly inspire confidence in a reluctant flyer like myself...
FAA launching a full review of Boeing manufacturing and QC processes. This is a step that is long overdue IMO. The almost nepotistic relationship between Boeing and the FAA has allowed for far too much influence from Boeing on how the regulator interprets and applies the rules.
It's akin to the level of near collusion that existed between certain Pharma companies and the FDA that led to the opiods crisis.
What was envisioned as setting the poacher up as gamekeeper? Has become an ever more successful poacher as they gamed the regulation and enforcement procedures. The MCAS scandal should have seen far more drastic regulatory overhaul.
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/11/business/the-faa-is-formally-investigating-boeing-over-alaska-airlines-boeing-737-max-incident/index.html
“Boeing may have failed to ensure its completed products conformed to its approved design and were in a condition for safe operation in accordance with quality system inspection and test procedures,” the FAA said in a letter to the company.
It's not an "economy class" thing yes, but they're not totally wrong either.
McDonnell Douglas pinched pennies and cut corners with the DC-10, leading to several entirely avoidable fatal crashes and a trashed reputation which ultimately finished the company.
Then the MDD suits ended up in charge at Boeing and that company has for some years now been following the pinch pennies, cut corners playbook.
16000 feet.
Apologies if this has already been asked.
I am curious to know at what altitude the aircraft was when the panel blew out.
You seem very out of touch,do you fly " economy class" yourself?
You might want to review the customer list; yes, the Max is flown by some LCCs but it has also been bought by many legacy carriers. Many LCCs fly Airbus products anyway, so there is no real association between this model of service and the 737 Max.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_737_MAX_orders_and_deliveries
I originally wrote that we need to distinguish between a plug door and a door which has been 'plugged' as in removed from use, blanked off might be a better term. But I deleted that and a lot of other stuff in the interest of keeping things simple.
The part-which-fell-off-whatever-you-call-it is not intended to be opened, no, but it can be replaced with an emergency exit which can, if seat density requires it.
The thing-the-part-which-fell-off fits into is an emergency exit door frame, just not fitted with an emergency exit door
As amusing as that image is. I have to wonder when life became so cheap? Was it when those two planes went down a few years ago and the company treated the whole incident as something to be minimised and ignored? If I recall correctly the first response by the company was to blame the pilots. Was it before then? The plain fact is that this aircraft is used as a bargain basement workhorse. Low cost airlines use them. At first glance that's grand. However, if Boeing wanted to reassure their customers, (by customers I'm referring to people who fly economy every day) and give up their private jets and fly economy with no fanfare and incognito. If they had to risk their lives flying on their product, I wonder how quickly the manufacturing shortcuts would cease.
Problem solved?
Agree, there is an ongoing lawsuit against Spirit Aerosystems regarding just that. Prioritisation of profit and schedule over QA and safety.
It's also IMO important to note that Spirit are a spin off of Boeing. The Wichita plant was Boeing owned and operated until 2005. It was where B29s and so many other planes were built. Boeing were a very large employer, lifetime jobs with whole families employed and working there. The reason I highlight that aspect, is that quality and engineering nous were embedded across generations of employees there.
Since 2005 in Wichita (Spirit Aerosystems), 70yrs of Boeing's engineer led ethos went up in smoke. The new owners value productivity rather than right 1st time. Boeing itself was already backsliding on quality and once a major fuselage and sub assembly supplier was spun off? The collapse of any quality assurance or responsible corporate culture was only accelerated.
Building a responsible and quality orientated quality culture takes years. Rejigging it is rarely successful and when the culture shifts from safety/quality to throughout/profit? I'd argue that it's nearly impossible to arrest and improve whilst maintaining the same Executives and motivations.
Also, there appears to be a culture of not listening to engineers raising problems with the assembly/construction process.
Production schedule seems to be of higher priority than safety/QC.
Wrong. Completely different engineering. The plugs are not meant to be used as exits ever. They are there to allow future reconfiguring as airlines change their models/plans/owners/management a lot. New MAX real emergency exits feature an electrical locking system, they are in now way similar.
It's not a plug door as it's an emergency exit, which are hinged on 737s (ancient ones possibly excepted). Like a bigger version of the 737 overwing exits although hinged at the bottom instead of at the top.
The defence budget has been bailing Boeing out for years. Massive overruns and delays on all sorts of projects. Not to mention the Starliner farce (although it appears Boeing is having to eat most of the overruns on that)
No quality assurance, basically. Also the fuselages are made using bargain basement labour but this would have been something meant to be re-checked many times.
There are other ongoing issues with loose/missing bolts in other parts of the airframe.
