How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
Public sector wages are not being paid by debt so all of this waffle is totally irrelevant.
Govenment is running a very large surplus in fact...
How is it fair to give someone who never worked in their life €12 a week tax free, but offer a clerical officer €5 a week before tax and deductions?
Not that I expect an answer
Does that mean we should continue to pay €232 a week to 120,000 people and give them Christmas bonuses??? That costs the tax payers of this country €1.45 billion.
I'd sooner give the lowest paid public servants a Christmas bonus instead.
Wrong, it's none of the above.
I don’t agree with a Christmas bonus for the unemployed. I think that makes zero sense when the government as our employer does not do Christmas bonuses. But your 1.45 billion is an annual figure. People lose their jobs. It happens , they can then go on the dole till they find a new job. It is also called the live register. Those people have paid their tax and are entitled to their Jobseeker’s Allowance. Just a quick look on the CSO website confirms out of the 121k unemployed in Q2 2023 there was 72.5% that were short term unemployed. Less than 32k people in this country of over 5million were long term unemployed. So while it may be some mad emotive issue for you the facts and figures make it quite the nothing burger.
But that's it. We're at full employment, there is no excuse for any genuine person to be on the dole i.e. JSA. If someone is genuinely 'between jobs' they will be on JSB
Only 32k are long term on the dole. It’s nothing. Pointless topic and certainly pointless on this thread. It is a fart in the wind with regard to our public finances. Just very emotive for some people.
Leo and Pascal playing a game of good cop, bad cop, a dangerous game of pass the parcel in advance of a general election.
I think you missed the point.
But in whatever occupational pension amount you will get via the PS on top of your State Pension.
Even for those of you you think it's paltry.
Then look at what that paltry amount would cost to find privately per month and compare it against your PS deductions
Dole should "support" people when they lose their jobs. It should be decreased proportionally over time. Say 300 euro a week for first 300 months, then 225 for three months, then 150 for three months and if you haven't gotten a job after 9 months, your dole is 100 euro a week for the rest of your life.
Long term unemployed, whatever the number they are, need motivating, not a 5.5% increase on 1st January and a Christmas bonus.
Jesus, treat the lowest paid public servants even the same as the unemployed. Is that too difficult for FFG to understand?
Huge respect to the hospital porters, road sweepers, all those public servants doing the dirtiest, unappealing, work that the general public and society needs doing.
Where is their motivation to get up early in the morning and do their jobs? Their employer has communicated loud and clear what they think of them.
They are going to do that with the dole. Make it up to 450 or some reasonable figure and it goes down over time which is a great idea. Someone who has paid tens of thousands in taxes should be able to get the 450 or 70% of their income for a few months till they sort themselves out. It will however make the public sector less attractive imo because the new tiered dole will make the private sector/job security look a lot better. You are right , long term unemployed shouldn’t be getting bonuses and shouldn’t be getting the same amount as short term.
Anyone who's able bodied and working age and drawing the dole for more than a few months or a year at this stage is choosing to not work
Yeah and that’s 32k out of a country of 5million. How low do you think that will ever be? It means nothing with regard to our finances. Just highly emotive for some people.
I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make here. Private sector workers get the same rate of PRSI pension as public sector workers. Anyone who pays sufficient PRSI contributions is entitled to the benefits of same. The only difference is that private sector workers don't have their pensions reduced by virtue of their entitlement to the State pension.
Do those figures in include those on long term supplementary allowance Instead of jobseekers.
There Is a considerable cohort on supplementary welfare who will never work they got 12e extra plus all the double payments. When I see the likes of them getting a bigger pay rise than me , it's sickening.
Jesus, I don't know how you aren't following it.
The cost of the PS pension (even minus the State Pension component) is far lower than if it were to be bought privately
not sure. Maybe it’s a few more thousand. Nothing burger, just emotive.
A lot more than a few thousand going by what I see week in week out
Well perhaps you might have said that in your last post rather than rambling incoherently?
This has been addressed already in this thread. This only holds true if you intentionally buy the worst value product that you possibly can on the private market. Why in the name of God would you do that? I've provided a working example, a few pages back,where the 'cost' on the private market of a civil servant's pension was priced at approx. €765k. However, under just a bit of scrutiny, the real value of such a pension was found to be approx €154k.
Why would anybody pay €765k for a product that is only worth €154k? In fact, how can the private market provide a product worth only €154k in exchange for a payment of €765k? Just another example of the bungling inefficiencies of the private sector I guess!
Then look at the much bigger number of people who use the dole as a temporary measure until they find alternative employment.
I don’t begrudge the €12 for people I’m on the dole. It only adds to the argument that we should all be getting the same percentage increase, the government have set the precedent and we should be following it.
It’s better to be able to say, you have them X%, why are we different? Then not being able to point at anyone to make the argument.
PS Pensioners who pay Class A PRSI have a co-ordinated pension. This means that your PS pension is reduced by any unemployment benefit / State pension payments that you get. So if you are on a lower salery / less service, your pension can be very low when the co-ordinated piece is deducted.
If you retire before state pension, you have to sign on for Unemployment Benefit for the first 9 months. This comes with conditions like looking for work, collecting your pension weekly from a post office.
Where do you get the 32k figure from?
I see 62,295.
Cso website , long term unemployed under 32k for Q2 2023. https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-lfs/labourforcesurveyquarter22022/unemployment/
I’m assuming the figures are being pulled from the CSO:
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-lfs/labourforcesurveyquarter22023/unemployment/#:~:text=Duration%20of%20Unemployment&text=Over%20the%20year%20to%20Q2%202023%2C%20short%2Dterm%20unemployment%20rose,See%20Table%203.2.&text=The%20long%2Dterm%20unemployment%20rate,2023%20was%20unchanged%20at%201.2%25.
Yes, note that the LFS is a different measure of employment and unemployment than the LR.
The LFS may state 32k people, but we are paying UB payments to 62k people.
fair enough. That’s shag all people in the context of public finances but thanks for correcting.
The Live Register isn’t a measure of unemployment.
I'd disagree, it is dependent on a range of factors but either I am the luckiest investor alive who randomly pointed at a letter when the company's financial advisor gave options or its not as black and white as you make it out to be
You think €13.6m per week is shag all? That translates to €709m per year. Just pocket change is it? A nothing burger
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