"wahhhh wahhh, Meath haven't been competing in Leinster because Dubs are so unfairly advantaged, not because Meath are shite.....waahhhhhh"
You'd make a great politician, I'll give you that. You have been repeatedly asked to explain your position and you keep giving these unrelated, partial, misdirecting answers that don't even come close to being a real answer.
1 You want to split Dublin up, making it harder for Dublin to win, correct? How is that not restricting their chances?
I want Dublin to be split up to improve the fairness in the All-Ireland competition, for all counties, including Dublin, despite what you misquoted me as saying in your previous post. It enhances the GAA in Dublin because it means any potential Dublin divisional sides successes will come fairly, unlike currently. This is better for the GAA in Dublin.
A partial, BS answer that doesn't address the actual question asked and contradicts itself multiple times in three sentences. I asked how is splitting them up not restricting their chances and you ignored that part and said it would enhance GAA in Dublin, which is complete rubbish. Not once did you say if it does/does not restrict their chances, which is what was asked.
2 Why not split Kerry then, and Mayo and Kilkenny and Galway.........it's for their own benefit, right?
No other county has the unique combination of unfair advantages that Dublin enjoy. That's why Dublin alone should be split. As I've said before, it's not just the fact Dublin are successful, it's more the fact this success is coming from an unfairly advantaged position.
Another non-answer. You claim that splitting Dublin will benefit them. I asked how does that not apply to the other teams like Mayo and Kerry. I mean, if it benefits one team then it’ll benefit every team, right? Right? You ignored this, and trotted out the same soundbite that you always do, ignoring the crux of the question and providing your own, ready-made, preloaded answer. Zero reasons given as to why this would/would not benefit other counties. It couldn’t possibly be that splitting them up would be to their detriment, could it? Which is the exact opposite of what you claimed earlier, no?
3 HOW does it make it more competitive for New York? Or Leitrim?
By enhancing the prestige, integrity and fairness of the competition, it benefits smaller counties in the short-term but particularly the medium to long-term. Without splitting Dublin the game will probably fade away at inter-county level.
Another pre-loaded copy and paste answer that avoids the actual question, again. Enhancing the prestige does nothing for competitiveness. Same with the integrity. Splitting Dublin makes it LESS competitive for the smaller counties, not MORE competitive. Having more competition at the top table does nothing for New York or Leitrim’s chances at going farther in the competition. Having 4 Dublin teams instead of 1 REDUCES their chances of doing so, making it LESS fair on them. But you knew that, so you’ve avoided the actual question again.
4 HOW much more likely are they to get out of Connaught?
As above, interest will be enhanced in the competition once Dublin are split. This will make a small difference in the short term but the benefits will become more apparent as the years progress. Similar to how Dublin's unfair advantages took years to fully manifest.
I didn’t ask you about interest in the competition (which has no bearing on their chances of getting out of Connaught). The goings-on in Leinster means SFA to New York or Leitrim getting out of their own province, which has only happened literally a handful of times in about 150 cumulative years of football. You KNOW this. So instead of admitting it, you answered a question that wasn’t asked.
Not splitting Dublin definitely does nothing to help Leitrim get out of Connaught!
Great. That’s the exact opposite of what you were asked though. What does splitting Dublin do to their chances? Your refusal to answer speaks volumes, because the answer doesn't fit the narrative you're conjuring up.
5 HOW are they going to meet these subdivisional Dublin teams that are easier to beat?
By dispersing the unfair advantages across several teams rather than one, the unfair advantages are significantly reduced and the competition becomes fairer and more competitive. I'm not sure what is hard to understand about this.
They're not gonna meet them at all, are they, seeing as they've never made it far enough? Hell, Leitrim only made it far enough once in the last century, never mind New York. I understand that you cannot answer the question truthfully because it pokes holes in your entire argument. I asked you HOW are they going to meet these teams when they can’t get out of their province and you’ve avoided it. Again. Why can’t you just answer the question? I’m not sure what’s so hard to understand about this? Do you need me to explain it to you in simpler terms? Or is it because the real answer is “they aren’t going to meet these Dublin teams in all probability, so splitting Dublin does absolutely nothing for them as it will have zero impact on their campaign”.
6 So how does it benefit them or make it fairer for them in any way, shape or form?
Same answer as for question 3. You need to get out of the mindset that the status quo can be justified. It can't, because of Dublin's unfair advantages.
We’ve shown that your answer to question 3 is a pile of shite. Integrity and prestige have zero relevance to competitiveness and it is my position that splitting Dublin decreases the number of tier 1 teams and nearly doubles the number of tier 2 teams, thereby making it harder (i.e. less competitive) for the Tier 3 teams and below. You've said nothing to convince me to change that position.
Leaving Dublin as a single entity is far, far more harmful to smaller counties than splitting them.
In your opinion. But, as we’ve already seen, your opinion is tarnished and tainted and not worth a fiddler’s fart, in reality. You continue to hide behind this façade of “I’m only looking out for the future of the game, won’t someone think of the poor wee counties?” when it is plain as day that you do not believe this. You cannot even argue your point without avoiding the questions and going off on unrelated tangents. You are as biased a poster as I’ve ever seen on Boards, pretending you are coming from an altruistic starting point fools nobody.
7 If Dublin had been split in 4 at the start of last year's championship, would Leitrim's odds at winning the thing have increased (because there's a higher number of better teams than them to compete against), or would they have shortened (because the Dublin 'juggernaut' is no longer a factor)?
Same answer as for question 3.
Which, again, was a steaming pile of shite. And also has nothing to do with the question asked. Again. I've asked you a very simple question that has a binary answer....either their odds increased or they decreased, and your answer to that is "By enhancing the prestige, integrity and fairness of the competition, it benefits smaller counties....." Why can't you give a straight answer? Is it because a straight answer would scuttle your entire argument and show it up for the nonsense that it is?
I’d like to note here, that now you’re not even bothered to copy and paste your responses any more, directing people to previous answers, no matter how irrelevant those answers are to the questions posed. You even copied and pasted my “your argument is built on sand” response earlier in the thread. Your argument is in the toilet and everyone can see it.
So i've dealt with your questions,....
You hadn't dealt with my questions, which is why I numbered them and asked them again. Because you were avoiding them. You've some neck to accuse me of doing what you just did yourself. And, for the record, you STILL haven't answered them, you've provided answers that either do not relate to the question asked or answer a completely different question altogether. So, to reciprocate, I'll now answer your questions in the same format.
now please explain to me how funding makes no difference in sport (far higher for Dublin than every other county), available playing pool makes no difference in sport (far higher for Dublin than every other county), how playing at home makes no difference (unique for Dublin in the All-Ireland). And also please explain how not splitting Dublin helps the likes of Leitrim and Carlow, who you clearly care so much about? Surely they don't benefit from all these unfair advantages being concentrated into a single team?
Sure, no problem. The answer to that question is 42. Next question please.
Touche brother.
ok well I don’t agree, cork and Dublin are the most populous counties in Ireland and are the joint third most successful counties in the GAA’s history so to make an argument that population doesn’t matter because cork haven’t won lately is missing the general obvious trend.
Whinge away so 😂
The fairly obvious relevance is that Cork has the third or fourth biggest population in the country and hasn’t won an All Ireland football title in 13 years ending a 20 year drought. They haven’t even reached a football final since that win . In those 13 years , Kerry with roughly 25% of the population of Cork has won 2 all Ireland’s and reached several finals . This destroys the point made by several posters that population is a major and unfair advantage . If it was down to population Cork should win Munster titles every year ( hasn’t happened for about 11 years ) and reach at least the All Ireland semi finals in both codes Dublin and Antrim the two most populated counties should be the top teams in both codes which they clearly aren’t .
What relevance is it when they have won?Your point was that population doesn’t matter. Cork and Dublin have won the same amount of senior men’s all irelands: 37.
I said “win” . It’s present tense . When did Cork last win an All Ireland in either code ? If you are willing to go far enough into history, many counties will have won something ( even Mayo 😂)
Because I feel like moaning. It's funny seeing a few loonies though pretending the championship isn't dead and that it's worth Dublin's time playing in it.
So why waste your time whinging on here 😂
Nah I'm good. Not surprised there's a decade of decline nobody with sense in Meath gives a shite about inter county anymore. People realise it's a waste of time the GAA want Dublin to win everything so why bother. Save your money, time and put it into something more productive. Let the dubs enjoy winning 100 Leinster's in a row because we're all just laughing at yous at this point.
Have a read of this and dry your eyes lad
If roles were reversed and Meath had Dublin's advantages we'd have won every Leinster the last 20 years. If yous had our situation you'd be a div 4 team. At least Kerry don't have everything in their favour. Pound for pound they're the best county by a country mile.
Most dubs don't even support yous anymore pre semi final. They're bored and they're not idiots. They can see the unfairness. Enjoy the next 20 Leinster championships because as long as Dublin are competing in it nobody outside of the nut jobs will.
Pretty pointless although not as bad as Leinster. At least cork have the ability to eventually catch up to Kerry unlike Leinster. Nobody will ever regularly challenge Dublin ever again.
It's been 20 years which is about a quarter of my life. In another 20 year's I expect Dublin to win every Leinster championship bar maybe two at best. So half my life the once most exciting football province pre over funding will be a waste.
13 years posting the same nonsense over and over again😏
This lad can’t be a serious poster?
I’d like to see the top competition eventually made up of teams like in the AFL. Even starting out with a small number like 6 or 8 and growing from there.
Obviously still have the club competitions within counties.
I know a lot of history would be at risk but it’s not like it’s completely destroyed due to change.
100% agreed munster87 probably only 6-7 counties can realistically win the All Ireland
Splitting Dublin wouldn't help the weaker Counties one bit .
Kerry man here...Munster is pointless.
The All Ireland is pretty pointless for the majority of counties participating in it too to be fair?
Go away with your nonsense, your fooling no one , all your after is to weaken Dublin to help your own County, and once again what County are you from ? We are all still waiting to hear !!
I did address what you said. You can disregard it because it clashes with your partisan worldview but that's on you.
You shouldn't just come in demanding that people answer your laundry list of questions, especially when you don't reciprocate. You haven't addressed my issues at all (e.g. dealing with how Dublin are unfairly advantaged in terms of population, funding, playing at home etc) but in the interests of continuing our discussion, I'm happy to deal with your questions, despite having done so many times before including in my posts to you today where I debunked your previous comments.
You're wrong when you say Cork have a bigger population advantage over Leitrim than Dublin do over Cork, please check the absolute (not relative) figures in the latest census. By every metric, funding, population, playing at home, Dublin are leagues ahead of everyone else. Any one of these things would be a probably by itself but combine them all together, make the gaps enormous, concentrate them over decades and we realise how crazy the current situation is.
So i've dealt with your questions, now please explain to me how funding makes no difference in sport (far higher for Dublin than every other county), available playing pool makes no difference in sport (far higher for Dublin than every other county), how playing at home makes no difference (unique for Dublin in the All-Ireland). And also please explain how not splitting Dublin helps the likes of Leitrim and Carlow, who you clearly care so much about? Surely they don't benefit from all these unfair advantages being concentrated into a single team?
Cork win nothing? Nothing equals 37 all irelands across both codes?
I’m sorry but the arguments on both sides are so endlessly lacking any sense.
read the blog that I posted in the last page if you actually want to educate yourself on the reasons why the GAA invest in dublin….but you won’t do that. You’ll just go around in circles reciting the same argument for another 300 pages.
If population size is the deciding factor why do Cork win nothing and why don’t Dublin win the hurling? How did Kilkenny achieve all their success? Anyone who repeatedly won’t declare their county in a GAA discussion is obviously ashamed of where they come from
Agreed pointless tournament , but Munster is too is it not ?
Dublin is far smaller in size than most counties with pitches at a premium. The value of land is far higher than other counties. Due to its unique combination of disadvantages and in the interest of fairness they should be given an increase in funding and allotted large swaths of lands in Meath and Kildare. You couldnt be having differences between counties right?
Not our fault the culchie teams can't get their sh1t together, now, is it? Must be a Meathman with that username, I'll bet it stings.
Also, for the record, your cherry picked stats are shown to be a load of horsesh1t when compared with other provinces over a longer timeframe.......Munster championship has had four different winners in the last century, with two teams winning 98 of those 100 games. Surely this is more pointless, going by your own logic, no?
Are Dublin still playing in the Leinster championship? What are they going for now 19/20? Most pointless tournament in Ireland.
More nonsense with nothing to back it up.
I debunked most of your claims in my last post but I'm happy to continue the discussion.
You didn't 'debunk' anything, a phrase that belongs in the CT forum. You didn't even address about 80% of what I said and the parts you did address, you only did so partially, and incorrectly. Keep saying things and it'll make them come true though, eh?
You're misquoting me also, I never said anything about "restricting Dublin's chances"
You want to split Dublin up, making it harder for Dublin to win, correct? (1) How is that not restricting their chances? This is what I meant by partially addressing my points. You said it's not about hobbling a team, then went on to say that you want Dublin to be hobbled. When I put this point to you, your reply is "well, technically I never said I want them to be 'restricted'" while refusing to discuss the matter raised: that you are contradicting your own words. You chose to skip over that part and start claiming I misquoted you (if you want to bet really technical, I never misquoted anyone, I paraphrased your words, if I'm quoting you it'll be done in a proper quote)
if a Dublin subdivisional sides competes fairly and wins (unlike the current Dublin team), I'd be delighted for them.
Sure you would, like your man from the Simpson's eating the lemons.
even though this would clearly benefit the organisation as a whole, including Dublin.
Splitting Dublin in 4 would benefit Dublin? (2) Why not split Kerry then, and Mayo and Kilkenny and Galway.........it's for their own benefit, right? This is another example of what I'm talking about above. You're making outlandish statements with no discussion or delving below the surface. Just spouting shite in the hopes that people will think it's true.
The "smaller entities" (this refers to Dublin subdivisional sides, not other non-Dublin teams) helps New York because the unfair advantages are now dispersed across multiple teams. This is beneficial both for New York's level of competitiveness (easier to beat Dublin subdivisional teams than the current unfairly advantaged single unit) and the fairness of the competition as whole
You haven't addressed my points, though. You're just reposting the same crap.
(3) HOW does it make it more competitive for New York? Or Leitrim?
(4) HOW much more likely are they to get out of Connaught?
(5) HOW are they going to meet these subdivisional Dublin teams that are easier to beat? They're not gonna meet them at all, are they, seeing as they've never made it far enough? Hell, Leitrim only made it far enough once in the last century, never mind New York.
(6) So how does it benefit them or make it fairer for them in any way, shape or form? It doesn't. Notionally, on paper, IF they managed to get out of Connaught and IF the Dublin sides also managed to do so and IF they were drawn together, then MAYBE they'd have a better chance at progressing, but that's a lot of Ifs and Maybes.
So even though there are more teams competing after a split, each Dublin divisional side is individually now easier to compete with for New York.
Currently they have 30 teams to compete against that are better then them, but you think increasing that number to 34 teams is better for them, because you want to restrict Dublin's chances. Introducing more 'good' teams will reduce their chances of progression, not increase them.
(7) Here's a question for you: If Dublin had been split in 4 at the start of last year's championship, would Leitrim's odds at winning the thing have increased (because there's a higher number of better teams than them to compete against), or would they have shortened (because the Dublin 'juggernaut' is no longer a factor)?
As long as Dublin have this unique combination of unfair advantages, it absolutely is not a fair competition.
More repetition, in the hope that it will stick.
Dublin's advantages are not unique. This has been pointed out to you and you keep refusing to accept it. Cork has a bigger advantage over Leitrim than Dublin do over Cork. By your own feckin reasoning, Cork should be split.
I've included 7 questions in my post here, if you're not going to bother answering them then your claims that you're debunking anything aren't worth but a fart in the wind.
No it wouldn't benefit the organisation as a whole , and most definitely not Dublin , it would only benefit a handful of Counties Once again who are " your team" ?
We're having a friendly discussion as I said, and I hate to say it, but unfortunately it's you who has "repeated the same old shite. Again". And who has cherrypicked what to respond to. I debunked most of your claims in my last post but I'm happy to continue the discussion. You're misquoting me also, I never said anything about "restricting Dublin's chances", if a Dublin subdivisional sides competes fairly and wins (unlike the current Dublin team), I'd be delighted for them. The most likely thing here is that you a partisan Dublin fan, and just don't want them to be split as they are "your" team, even though this would clearly benefit the organisation as a whole, including Dublin.
The "smaller entities" (this refers to Dublin subdivisional sides, not other non-Dublin teams) helps New York because the unfair advantages are now dispersed across multiple teams. This is beneficial both for New York's level of competitiveness (easier to beat Dublin subdivisional teams than the current unfairly advantaged single unit) and the fairness of the competition as whole- people and teams radically lose interest when one team is unfairly advantaged over everyone else, as is the case currently. One thing is for sure- not splitting Dublin definitely doesn't help New York. So even though there are more teams competing after a split, each Dublin divisional side is individually now easier to compete with for New York. But you're just focusing on outcomes again here (New York winning or not winning); what's actually more important is whether it is a fair competition. As long as Dublin have this unique combination of unfair advantages, it absolutely is not a fair competition.
Do you accept that funding, playing pool, playing at home etc are advantages? If you do, then you will accept that Dublin are uniquely advantaged over everyone else as they vastly outstrip every other side on all these metrics individually, never mind when you take them together, concentrate them for decades, are of a scale completely disproportionate to other differences between counties. Once you accept this reality of how Dublin are unfairly advantaged, the conversation can move forward. If you have a proposal for how to mitigate these advantages that doesn't involve splitting Dublin, I'm definitely open to it; as I said, it is not out of any desire to harm Dublin that I want this to happen. But after a lot of discussion and debate, this remains the best option.
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