How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
And the 7.5% was received in dribs and drabs (the last 1.5% only in October) and came nowhere close to matching the inflation rate of approx 8% in 2022 and another 5% on top of that in 2023.
Why are C&PS always expected to play catch up?
I can't comment on your electricity bill.
The thing is there are substantially more people in "lower paid grades" in the public sector than at the top. One would expect that if the lower paid grades genuinely weren't ok with these pay talks they would have significantly more sway in unions due to their larger numbers and as such you would expect that any pay rises that didn't make sense to them would be voted down easily.
This one might be different - it may not be acceptable to the majority in the union.
well you are talking about 8, 5 and now 2.3. 7% plus 7.5 gets us very close to that doesn’t it? So I am correct , 7 is nearly matching inflation. Our opinions differ on nearly matching inflation being a decent effort or not.
No actually it doesn't. Because it was 8%, than another 5% on top of that, while increases of 7.5% were being drip fed in stages, the latest only being paid in October 2023. Nearly 2 years later.
And now you think we should be drip fed the next 7% for another 18/24 months.
Again, playing catch up. If it was a straight up increase it would be better. Still not good, but better. But drip feeding it in over 18 months makes it practically worthless.
But you carry on thinking its great.
7% combined with 8.5 actually in the last one is nearly matching combined inflation. That is factual. You don’t think 2/3% off this rapid inflation is good. I think it’s a good effort. You really have a problem with different opinions.
Can I have your 7% if its worthless?
Its worth 7%....
As do you.
I notice you're choosing to ignore that inflation to date has been a cumulative of approx 13.5% but only an increase of 7.5% has been paid, and the final 1.5% of that only being paid in October. That is factual.
And now you now think staff having wait another 18/24 months (presuming a 2 year deal to end of 2025) being drip fed tiny percentages every six months or so that will eventually amount to another 7%, and match inflation as it was at the end of 2023 - 2 years earlier, is a good effort? While in the interim, inflation is still increasing at a rate of at least 2.3% per year on top of the previous 13.5%.
It's not. It means C&PS pay is always on the back foot and trailing behind.
8.5 has been paid. So no it is not factual as you put it. No idea why you say at least 2.3% , that’s not how economic predictions work whatsoever. And finally I came from the private sector, I never expected my pay matching inflation no matter what, like you seem to. The privilege is astounding.
You've used the figure of 7.5% yourself at least 3 times, so make up your mind?
Also, 2.3% for 2024 is a prediction. Some predictions I've seen are higher for 2024. (ECB is 2.7%)
Notice you're still refusing to acknowledge that drip feeding increases in over a couple of years still leaves C&PS wages trailing way behind inflation, let alone match it.
Not my problem if you came to the public service with low expectations.
Is there any source for the 7% over 18 months offer? Or is it a guess?
It is 8.5. I’ll go with the Irish central banks prediction. Low expectations???? Rational expectations, shocking that a long member such as yourself doesn’t hold them. I’ll admit the drip feeding is a pain in the hole.
Everything’s a guess, someone throws out a prediction and then we just debate if it’s good. Not the most useful but sure look it’s a discussion board not a news site although any small update gets posted here quickly enough.
You do realise it's sound economic policy to put the brakes on through interest hikes and have wages trail behind inflation when it's spiralling out of control. The government would be lynched if it matches inflation when trying to slow it
They are going to go very close to matching it as it is. 2024 is predicted for 2.3% anyway
It was 7.5%
Reminding you of your previous comments in relation to the benchmarking awards, which you called "pure crap" before you come back with "well, some people got 8.5%"
I'll take the ECB over the Irish Central Bank, thanks.
Yet they can afford to pay 12% increases in social welfare base rates, (not including multiple generous bonuses). Allocate billions for refugees, and legally require other employers to increase minimum wage by 12% in one go from 1st January, yet leave their own employees wages trailing 2 years behind inflation?
Enough is enough. C&P servants always last priority.
It was 8.5. I’ll take the Irish central banks prediction today, Thanks. Keep dreaming anyways
You're ignoring the 1% paid in October 2021 which was part of the last deal.
I thought you were pro lower paid workers getting a higher percentage increase then the rest of workers? or is that exclusively for Civil/Public? A 7% deal for the Public Sector is likely to have the €750 clause bringing these workers more in line with minimum wage increases etc.
It was 7.5%.
Just because you've changed your mind on a figure you've used yourself multiple times and now want to move the goalposts doesn't change anything.
And the Governor of the Central Bank is also a member of the ECB's Governing Council.
It was 8.5%. And the latest inflation prediction is 2.3%. Two irrefutable facts. Keep dreaming.
Hilarious you're now trying to claim irrefutable facts, when you've used the figure of 7.5% yourself, multiple times.
I could quote the posts, but I'm not as petty as you.
And oh, if only we got a percent for very time you've said "keep dreaming" on this thread.
It's what you say when you can say nothing else.
Source?
I was wrong I’ll admit that. I doubt you will do the same. The last pay deal was 8.5. Keep those dreams alive.
The arguing is pretty funny when you can simply look both agreements up on line
The total form both agreement is actually 9.5% for most, 8.5% for some
there is also the point that lower earners earned more than the increases in some instances - for example if "1% or €500 whichever is greater"
The original agreement
"A general round increase in annualised basic salary for all public servants of 1% or €500, whichever is greater, on 1 October 2021.
The equivalent of a 1% increase in annualised basic salaries to be used as a Sectoral Bargaining Fund, in accordance with Chapter 2 of this Agreement, on 1 February 2022.
A general round increase in annualised basic salary for all public servants of 1% or €500, whichever is greater, on 1 October 2022."
"The 1 February 2022 pay increase is based on sectoral bargaining, whereby a quantum of 1% of the relevant pay bill was allowed to resolve longstanding disputes within the sectors. Some sectors opted to resolve issues agreed between the departments and the representative bodies under certain bargaining units and some applied a general 1% increase to the cohort's of staff."
so most unions took this 1% but many did not
Also worth noting that any staff that got FEMPI restoration in 2021 did not get the 1% in October 2021
Likewise for 2022
so 2% or 3% total
The extension
"Under the extension of the Building Momentum agreement for 2022-2023, 3% is due from the 2nd of February 2022 with a further 2% in March 2023 and 1.5% or €750 whichever is greater due on 1 October 2023. These increases are applied to all public service staff."
so
3%
2%
1.5%
Total 6.5%
both together 8.5% to 9.5%
DPER also set this out online
https://www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=https://assets.gov.ie/236623/aac8bb84-545f-416b-af86-5025db6071d7.pdf#page=null
Cheers. It really was a little cracker. Anything similar will stroll through.
So much for your claims of "irrefutable", facts huh?
From the agreement, which was triggered as part of a review:
Maybe you should get onto ICTU and the WRC and let them know.
Read the line " the following pay adjustments will apply IN ADDITION to the existing pay terms in buidling momentum". Please for the love of god dont come back to me
Nice ninja edit.
Finally reported you this time, for your personal abuse, because I am sick of it.
All along I have referred to the deal voted on in 2022-2023 as an EXTENSION of Building Momentum.
The bottom line is, you think its a "great deal!" if C&PS wages continue to trail years behind inflation and everyone should happily vote for that.
And you have the cheek to question my intelligence.
We're done here.
Grand don’t comment on my posts then.
If you're posting on a public forum, you don't get a say in who replies.
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